DIY 20L Sump design question

[milfordguy]

So I've been researching the best DIY 20L sump setup for the past week or so. I've seen just about everyone ends up with a different design at the end of the day. I was hoping I could get some feedback before I pull the trigger on buying my glass baffles.

 

I've decided on this design for simplicity. My skimmer looks like it will do best in 8" of water so I'm going to have all my first 3 baffles cut to 8". Or maybe get my second baffle cut to 9"?

 

I'm planning on copying one of Melev's design, but tweaking it slightly. On this link you can see he has eggcrate for about 3/4 of his last baffle. I'm planning on just making my entire last baffle egg crate so having a large fuge/return as my second section.

 

I've attached a picture below of what I'm planning. Any and all advice would be appreciated. This is my first time ever making a sump so please feel free to criticize!

 

[bdevillier19]

I would the return in the left chamber and the skimmer/overflow in the right chamber so you have the fuge plus the bubble trap to keep micro bubbles out of your tank.

[drunkenmonk21]

I would the return in the left chamber and the skimmer/overflow in the right chamber so you have the fuge plus the bubble trap to keep micro bubbles out of your tank.

 

 

Either side he puts them on he will have the fuge and bubble trap before it goes back to the tank.

[bdevillier19]

Either side he puts them on he will have the fuge and bubble trap before it goes back to the tank.

a baffle doesnt work as well at stopping bubbles. i have the same setup as what hes considering and plumbed the same way as what he wants. i was still getting bubble until i but the bubble trap between the fuge and return section.

[milfordguy]

I posted this same question on a local forum and was suggested the following design. It provides 2 bubble traps. Anyone have any thoughts on this design?

 

http://s1298.photobucket.com/user/rgwalkeriv/media/PedroSumpSuggestionUpdated_zps6573fe8e.jpg.html'>

 

Note: This is not to scale, I just made the diagram quickly.

[bdevillier19]

that would work but i dont think that the the bubble trap between the drain and the fuge is really needed. i think the baffle combined with the distance the water has to flow across fuge plus the bubble trap would be enough but an extra bubble trap wouldnt hurt so its up to you

[milfordguy]

I figured that the first bubble trap was unnecessary, but since it's only one more piece of glass to have cut it shouldn't be too much work. I'm going to have the pieces cut today and hopefully silicone them in tomorrow after work.

[Eisernes]

Have you calculated how much water will drain from the display when you kill the return pump?

[milfordguy]

Have you calculated how much water will drain from the display when you kill the return pump?

I actually haven't yet, I remember seeing a way to calculate it. Do you know the calculation off the top of your head?

[retired_af]

I actually haven't yet, I remember seeing a way to calculate it. Do you know the calculation off the top of your head?

What I did was fill the sump to 1 inch below the lip with the tank full and everything turned off. This simulates a power outage and lets you know how much will drain into the sump. I marked the water level and labeled it "Power Out". Then I turned everything on and let it stabilize. I marked the level in the return section and labeled it "Max Fill". That way I know how much water to put in without being in danger of overflow in case we lose power.

 

As for the bubble trap, I would put it just before the return section. If you put the baffle in, use it at the input from the tank. Baffles dont stop bubbles as effectively and you definately want to keep those from your return pump.

 

Before putting the new glass in make SURE you have enough room for the footprint of your skimmer and your return pump. Also, be sure to use aquarium-safe silicone (GE Type I works very well) and not those with colors, mildew inhibitors, etc in the mixture..

 

Jim

[Mojado]

So I've been researching the best DIY 20L sump setup for the past week or so. I've seen just about everyone ends up with a different design at the end of the day. I was hoping I could get some feedback before I pull the trigger on buying my glass baffles.

 

I've decided on this design for simplicity. My skimmer looks like it will do best in 8" of water so I'm going to have all my first 3 baffles cut to 8". Or maybe get my second baffle cut to 9"?

 

I'm planning on copying one of Melev's design, but tweaking it slightly. On this link you can see he has eggcrate for about 3/4 of his last baffle. I'm planning on just making my entire last baffle egg crate so having a large fuge/return as my second section.

 

I've attached a picture below of what I'm planning. Any and all advice would be appreciated. This is my first time ever making a sump so please feel free to criticize!

 

I'd make the first baffle 9.5 inches high. You can always raise your skiimmer if the water is too high. With 8" baffles, if the water level is too low for your skimmer (or maybe another one down the line), you can't really do much about it.

[milfordguy]

What I did was fill the sump to 1 inch below the lip with the tank full and everything turned off. This simulates a power outage and lets you know how much will drain into the sump. I marked the water level and labeled it "Power Out". Then I turned everything on and let it stabilize. I marked the level in the return section and labeled it "Max Fill". That way I know how much water to put in without being in danger of overflow in case we lose power.

 

As for the bubble trap, I would put it just before the return section. If you put the baffle in, use it at the input from the tank. Baffles dont stop bubbles as effectively and you definately want to keep those from your return pump.

 

Before putting the new glass in make SURE you have enough room for the footprint of your skimmer and your return pump. Also, be sure to use aquarium-safe silicone (GE Type I works very well) and not those with colors, mildew inhibitors, etc in the mixture..

 

Jim

Did you do this before or after you placed your baffles in the sump? I would assume it would have to be after or else you wouldn't get an accurate reading.

[retired_af]

yes, after with the skimmer and return pump in place.

[Eisernes]

I actually haven't yet, I remember seeing a way to calculate it. Do you know the calculation off the top of your head?

You can figure it out while it's dry. You may have to lower your highest baffle.

 

You know what the height will be when it's running. That will be the height of the highest baffle. Looks like 8". 20L is 30x12x12. So basically the empty area when the sump is running will be 30x12x4. That's 1440 cubic inches. About 6.23 gallons. That is how much volume you can afford to have backflow into the sump when you kill the pumps.

 

Then you need to measure the point on your display where the siphon will break. This is usually where the return enters through the back wall of the tank. Let's say it's 6" below the top of the tank. Subtract from the the space where is no water from the top of the tank to the middle of the overflow teeth. We'll call that 2". That leave the displaced water at about 36"x18"x4", 2592 cu in or 11.22 gallons.

 

I have no idea what your overflow and return heights are so this is just an example but as you can see, a sump water height of 8" doesn't leave much room for error. Make sure when you drill the tank that you keep these things in mind. Check valves work for some people and not others so when I planned mine I did it so that overflowing the tank or the sump was 100% impossible.

[milfordguy]

http://s1298.photobucket.com/user/rgwalkeriv/media/PedroSumpSuggestionUpdated1_zpsdb74439d.jpg.html'>

 

This is actually the design that came up from my local forum. Because the first baffle is 9.5" does that mean my waterline would only be 9.5" up until that first baffle after that it would be the height of that second baffle? (8") and then only 6.5" in the third.

[Eisernes]

The first one will be 8". That first piece of glass isn't doing anything but taking up space. The last section will be 6.5 so that will give you an extra gallon or so of space depending on the actual dimensions of that chamber.

[Mojado]

The first one will be 8". That first piece of glass isn't doing anything but taking up space. The last section will be 6.5 so that will give you an extra gallon or so of space depending on the actual dimensions of that chamber.

Actually, it will all be one height. . . 8" across the whole sump. If you have water flow, then the water has to clear 8" height for the second baffle. If it clears that baffle, it'll also clear the other 8" baffle.

[Eisernes]

Yeah you're right. None of those baffles are doing anything.

If it were me, I would put the return chamber in the middle and the fuge on the right. That way you can control flow through the sump and the fuge independently.

[Mojado]

You're welcome to use what I did.

http://www.nano-reef.com/topic/328648-mojados-40-breeder-build/?p=4369460

 

You can move the 4th baffle over to where it is 1 inch from the right-most baffle if you don't want a place for purigen or GFO or carbon.

 

I have media bags with carbon, purigen, and sometime phosguard in between the sponges.

[milfordguy]

You're welcome to use what I did.

http://www.nano-reef.com/topic/328648-mojados-40-breeder-build/?p=4369460

 

You can move the 4th baffle over to where it is 1 inch from the right-most baffle if you don't want a place for purigen or GFO or carbon.

 

I have media bags with carbon, purigen, and sometime phosguard in between the sponges.

Do you know the measurements of your glass baffles by any chance?

 

Edit: Nevermind I found the dimensions. Thank!

 

Hopefully the glass shop didn't get a chance to cut my first baffle dimensions.

[Mojado]

Yeah you're right. None of those baffles are doing anything.

 

If it were me, I would put the return chamber in the middle and the fuge on the right. That way you can control flow through the sump and the fuge independently.

 

Actually, that last chamber can be anything below 8". My bad.

[Mojado]

Do you know the measurements of your glass baffles by any chance?

 

Edit: Nevermind I found the dimensions. Thank!

 

Hopefully the glass shop didn't get a chance to cut my first baffle dimensions.

 

You should have them notch the corners of the baffles that are going to touch the bottom glass to account for the tank's beade of silicone across the bottom edges.

 

 

All baffles are 11 ¹³/₁₆ " long. The heights change depending on where a particular baffle goes.

 

 

The first baffle from the left holds the skimmer section and is where water enters the sump. This baffle is 9 ¹/₂ " tall. The bottom corners are beveled (¹/₈ " corners removed) to account for the silicone along the bottom edges of the tank.

 

The second bafffle is the same size, but the bottom corners aren't beveled since that baffle will be an inch off the bottom glass.

 

The third and fourth baffles are identical. They are only 8" tall. They will house the refugium section. Both of these baffles have their bottom corners beveled since they will rest on the bottom and have to account for the silicone bead of the tank.

 

The fifth baffle is also 8 inches tall, but since this baffle will be an inch of the bottom glass, it doesn't have its bottom corners beveled.

 

The second drawing above is to scale, with each square representing an inch. It shows where I placed my baffles.

 

This is how it ended up coming out in. In between the sponges I have medai bags with carbon, purigen, and sometimes Phosguard.

I would cut a piece of carboard in the dimension of one of the baffles and see if the 11 ¹³/₁₆ " dimensions works for your 20L. I assume they are all nomially the same, but just make sure that this measurement will work for you. The baffle should be able to move around freely but with minimal play. If 11 ¹³/₁₆ " is too tight, I'd go with 11 ³/₄ ".

Be sure to ask the glass shop to finish the edges so you don't cut yourself. Call around. One shop wanted to charge me $120 for the baffles, another wanted $50. I found a place to do it for $25. Good luck!

[milfordguy]

You should have them notch the corners of the baffles that are going to touch the bottom glass to account for the tank's beade of silicone across the bottom edges.

Yeah I never even thought of that. Even with the 11 3/4" width this will be a problem?

[Mojado]

Yeah I never even thought of that. Even with the 11 3/4" width this will be a problem?

No, you should be fine. If the glass doesn't sit completely on the bottom because of the beade of silicone, it shouldn't matter . . .you're going to silicone that junction up anyway. It shouldn't provide more than a 16th of an inch of gap. It's nothing really. Notching the corners was just me scratching the anal itch being anal.

[Wburrick]

This design I found and am purchasing doesn't have as many baffles but it does include sock holders and as for the bubble trap you can always put a sponge between the last two baffles. I plan on putting my skimmer in the first section and Hope that the bubbles disperse before making it to the last two baffles. I have also heard that the skimmer I have doesn't put out a lot of micro bubbles if any at all. Just an Idea.

 

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=190875596034&ssPageName=ADME:X:RTQ:US:1123

 

P. S. It says it's no longer available but I messaged the seller and they are still making them. They also take custom orders. You can change the water height and dimensions of the other baffles.