GULAG: archives against lies

259
Genuine data show a reality that is fundamentally different from the one that from the school bench is embedded in the minds of people both in the West and in Russia itself. The myth of the "bloody USSR" was created to slander and blacken Russia-USSR and Soviet civilization as the main enemy of the West on the planet.

GULAG: archives against lies

In particular, the creators of the myth of the "bloody terror" in the USSR were not interested in the crimes committed by prisoners. Those who were convicted by Soviet repressive and punitive bodies always appear in the work of the “whistleblowers” ​​as innocent victims of Stalinism. But in fact, most of the prisoners were ordinary criminals: thieves, murderers, rapists, etc. And such people were never considered innocent victims at any time and in any country. In particular, in Europe and the USA, in the West as a whole, up to the last period of the newest stories penalties against criminals were very harsh. And in the current United States, such an attitude exists up to our time.



The Soviet punitive system was not out of the ordinary. In 1930, the Soviet punitive system included: prisons, labor camps, labor camps of the GULAG and special open zones. Those who committed serious crimes (murder, rape, economic crimes, etc.) were sent to labor camps. This largely extended to those who were convicted of counter-revolutionary activities. Other criminals sentenced to more than 3 years could also get into labor camps. After serving a certain time in a labor camp, a prisoner could get on a milder regime in a labor colony or a special open area.

Labor camps were usually large-sized zones in which prisoners lived and worked under close surveillance and security. Making them work was an objective necessity, since society could not take the burden with the full content of prisoners in complete isolation and immunity. As of 1940, the year was 53 labor camps. Obviously, if at present we conduct a survey of Russian citizens on the correctness of the work of prisoners, then the majority will agree that the criminals must work in order to support themselves and, if possible, compensate the material damage to society and the people affected by their hands.

The GULAG also included 425 labor colonies. They were much smaller than camps, with not so much a strict regime of maintenance and less supervision. Prisoners with short sentences were sent to them - convicted for less serious criminal and political crimes. They had the opportunity to work for freedom in enterprises and in agriculture and were part of civil society. Special open areas were mostly agricultural areas for those who were sent into exile (for example, kulaks during collectivization). People whose fault was less could serve time in these zones.

As the figures from the archives show, political prisoners were much less than criminal ones, although the slanderers of the USSR tried and are trying to show the opposite. Thus, one of the leading slanderers of the USSR, the Anglo-American writer Robert Conquest, asserted that in 1939 there were 9 million political prisoners in labor camps and another 3 million people died in 1937 – 1939. All this, in his opinion, is political prisoners. According to Conquest, in 1950 there were 12 million political prisoners. However, archival data show that in 1939, the total number of prisoners was slightly more than 2 million people: of these, in the labor camps of the Gulag - 1,3 million people, of whom 454 thousand were convicted of political crimes (34,5%). Not 9 million, as Conquest claimed. In 1937 – 1939 166 thousand people died in the camps, not 3 million, according to a western professional disinformer. In 1950, there were only 2,5 million prisoners, in the labor camps of the Gulag - 1,4 million, of which counterrevolutionaries (political prisoners) - 578 thousand, and not 12 million!

The figures of another professional liar, Alexander Solzhenitsyn, about 60 million and more people who died in labor camps, are generally not necessary to analyze because of their complete absurdity.

How many people were sentenced to death by 1953? Conquest reports that the Bolsheviks killed in the period from 1930 to 1953. 12 million political prisoners in labor camps. Of these, approximately 1 million were destroyed in 1937 — 1938. Solzhenitsyn reports tens of millions of people killed, of which at least 3 million - only in 1937 – 1938.

Archives say otherwise. The Soviet and Russian historian Dmitry Volkogonov, who was in charge of the Soviet archives under President B. Yeltsin, cited this figure: between 1 in October 1936 of the year and 30 of September in 1938, there were 30 thousand of 514 people sentenced to death by military tribunals. Other information comes from the KGB data: 786 098 people were sentenced to death for counterrevolutionary activities in the period from 1930 to 1953 years (that is, for 23 year). However, the majority was convicted in 1937 – 1938. It is also necessary to take into account the fact that not all those sentenced to death were actually executed. A significant part of the death sentences were replaced by terms in labor camps.

Another defamation of the USSR is an unlimited period of stay in prisons and camps. Like, the one who got there, never left. This is another lie. Most of those who were imprisoned during the Stalinist period were sentenced to a term, usually no more than 5 years. Thus, criminal offenders in the RSFSR received the following sentences in 1936 year: 82,4% - up to 5 years, 17,6% - 5-10 years. 10 years were the maximum possible period up to 1937. Political prisoners convicted by civil courts in the USSR in the 1936 year received sentences: 42,2% - up to 5 years, 50,7% - 5-10 years. As for those sentenced to imprisonment in the labor camps of the Gulag, where longer sentences were established, the 1940 statistics of the year show that those who served there up to 5 years were 56,8%, from 5 to 10 years - 42,2%. Only 1% of prisoners received a term of more than 10 years. That is, the majority of prisoners had time periods up to 5 years.

The number of deaths in labor camps fluctuates from year to year: from 5,2% - in 1934 (with 510 thousand prisoners in labor camps), 9,1% - in 1938 (996 thousand prisoners) to 0,3% (1,7 million prisoners ) in 1953 year. The highest numbers in the hardest years of the Great Patriotic War: 18% - 1942 year (by 1,4 million prisoners), 17% - in 1943 year (983 thousand). Further, there is a constant and large decline in mortality: from 9,2% in 1944 (663 thousand) to 3% - in 1946 (600 thousand) and 1% in 1950 (1,4 million). That is, as the war stopped and the material conditions of the country were adjusted, the death rate in places of detention sharply decreased.

It is obvious that the death rate in the camps was not connected with the “bloody regime” and Stalin’s personal environment and his entourage, but with the general problems of the country, lack of resources in society (especially the shortage of drugs and food). The most terrible were the years of the great war, when the invasion of Hitler's "European Union" led to the genocide of the Soviet people and a sharp drop in the standard of living even in free territories. In 1941-1945 more than 600 thousand people died in the camps. After the war, when the living conditions in the USSR began to improve rapidly, as did health care (in particular, antibiotics became widely practiced), the death rate in the camps also sharply went down.

Thus, the tales of the many millions and even tens of millions of people deliberately destroyed under Stalin are a black myth created by the enemies of the Union in the West during the information war and supported by anti-Soviets in Russia itself. The goal of the myth is to blacken and discredit the Soviet civilization in the eyes of humanity and the citizens of Russia themselves. Destruction and rewriting of true history in the interests of the West occurs.
259 comments
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  1. +43
    13 September 2018 05: 18
    I think you just need to release a book based on archival data, and create a website with a complete listing of all convicted, executed and most importantly by what articles. Yes, the work is not simple, but very important in all aspects, especially moral and psychological. Thank you for the article.
    1. +7
      13 September 2018 06: 13
      Well what are you. There are such books and there are many of them.
      The way in which the abstruse and frankly insidious theories are created today is seen almost in the * online * mode. But if earlier those who bashfully called * private individuals * indulged in this, then today public figures in the public service are engaged in this.
      1. Cat
        +26
        13 September 2018 07: 09





        The memorial complex to victims of political repression at 12 km of the Novo-Moscow highway - Yekaterinburg.
        I quote from the official site of the complex -
        At that time, the NKVD authorities lowered the plan for executions from above. In the Sverdlovsk region, the Stalin plan was exceeded ... Innocent people were arrested, tortured, and absolutely absurd charges were brought. In the basements of the NKVD on Lenin, 17, only in less than two years (1937-38), about 20 thousand (!) People were shot. Sometimes up to 400 people were shot in one night. They even executed famous people in the city: scientists, artists, professors, and prominent party workers.

        At one time I happened to visit the basements of the site "Lenin 17" mentioned by the Authors. I even had a chance to talk with an eyewitness who pulled out the cherished "execution door" at which the sentence was carried out. Moreover, as an experiment, the timing of the "capital punishment" was carried out. So, with a certain skill, one sentenced to capital punishment for 10 minutes and not otherwise. Now let's get down to math. 60 minutes (1 hour) we divide by 10 minutes (one shot) we get 6 people per hour. We multiply 6 by 24 hours, we get 144 people shot per day! And this is with a team of 15 people working around the clock. I can give examples of calculations in cars, man-hours, man-shovels, and so on. Everywhere in the region there are 150 people per day, not 400 as on the site. But what a drama !!!
        The next "pearl" of the authors of the local site
        "Even famous people in the city were executed: scientists, art workers, professors, prominent party workers." So it tempts to ask, and if the unknown is his expense - is this normal?
        Why am I giving these numbers, quotes and data! My vision of the problem is that "researchers" of different interpretations and directions do not set the task of finding the truth, but, on the contrary, draw the latter to "their truth," theory or version.
        The task for the workers of the Memorial is one, for Mr. Samsonov another. Those and others selflessly continue to feed us with various truths and truths, expose, deny and .......
        I’m not for good or bad (my great-grandfather was also repressed and shot), I’m not corny just against hysteria and cliches. And both one and the other side. For example, I would like to see a direct quote from Solzhenitsyn, which is referred to by the respected Author !!!?
        And alas, in both camps there is a lot of small and a set of "truths" for every taste and color !!!
        Sincerely, Kitty!
        1. +14
          13 September 2018 07: 55
          According to the "research" of Svinidze, other Latin and Novodvorsk people, the peak of repression was in the years 37-38, and 52, and the statistics of arrests do not confirm this. What's the matter? It was just that these years were the period of the cleansing of the Leninist guards and the "creative intelligentsia", of which they tried to make "saints" in the 60s and 80s, but the facts show - and counterrevolutionary activities and theft, all often existed.
          1. -1
            13 September 2018 09: 55
            Quote: Serge Gorely
            According to the "research" of Svinidze, other Latin and Novodvorsk people, the peak of repression was in the 37-38 and 52 years, and the statistics of arrests do not confirm this. What's the matter?

            But perfectly confirms the statistics of those sentenced to death. BMN data: 1936 - 1 people; 1937 - 353 people; 1938 - 328 people; 1939 - 2 people
            From these figures, it is clearly seen that in 1937 the number of people sentenced to the highest degree 316 times more than in 1936.
            1. +7
              13 September 2018 13: 28
              Quote: merlin
              316 times

              and what not 100500? ... political with criminals considered and how generally considered?
              In total, from 1921 to the beginning of 1954, the following were sentenced on political charges:
              to the death penalty xnumx man
              to imprisonment - 2.369.220,
              to the link - 765.180.
              It should also be borne in mind that not all sentences were carried out. For example, from 15 July 1939 to 20 April 1940, a prisoner was sentenced to capital punishment for disorganization of camp life and production, but then part of them was commuted to death sentences from 201 to 10 years (15). The camps contained prisoners sentenced to the highest degree with the replacement of imprisonment: in 3 - 1934, in 3849 - 1935, in 5671 - 1936, in 7303 - 1937, in 6239 - 1938, in 5926 - 1939.

              you can count it ... request
              1. -6
                13 September 2018 14: 28
                Quote: Deadush
                Quote: merlin
                316 times

                and what not 100500? ... political with criminals considered and how generally considered?

                Is your calculator on your computer broken? Or do you not know how to use it?
                Quote: Deadush
                you can count it ...

                So count.
                In general, why did you write all this? That's how it all relates to the general the number of sentences passed by the VMN for 1936-1939?
                PS You can search the Internet for "Help from the 1st Special Department of the USSR Ministry of Internal Affairs on the number of arrested and convicted in the period 1921-1953." information is readily available.
                1. +7
                  13 September 2018 20: 21
                  which dates back to December 11, 1953. The certificate is signed by the acting Colonel Pavlov, head of the 1st special department (the 1st special department was the accounting and archival department of the Ministry of Internal Affairs). In 1937, 353 people were sentenced to death.
                  Moreover, the bulk of those convicted of counter-revolutionary crimes were not in the Gulag camps in 1937-38, but during and after the war. For example, there were 1937 104 people in the camps in 826 and 1938 185 people in 324.
                  And it turns out interesting, who was shot?
                  -According to article 58 (counter-revolution, theft, robbery) there are 104 thousand, and 353 thousand executed in 1937.
                  1. -6
                    13 September 2018 20: 30
                    You also suggest how to use the calculator?
                  2. -14
                    14 September 2018 19: 25
                    Can we believe the "archival data" of the murderer's department? When did the Soviet "archival data" tell the truth? Have you forgotten that all the data was strictly verified with the "general line of the party"?
                    1. +4
                      15 September 2018 13: 09
                      Quote: Griol
                      -4
                      Can we believe the "archival data" of the murderer's department? When did the Soviet "archival data" tell the truth? Have you forgotten that all the data was strictly verified with the "general line of the party"?

                      If they are verified, then why should they be kept secret, my dear?
                    2. +2
                      17 September 2018 09: 44
                      Yes of course! Believe amersky and Anglo-historians! They always "know better" from the island and from that end of the Atlantic ... They always swear to say "one truth, only the truth and nothing but the truth!"
                      1. 0
                        21 September 2018 23: 29
                        Quote: fighter angel
                        They always swear to say "one truth, only the truth and nothing but the truth!"
                        shaking a tube with gray powder ...
                        just added :))
            2. 0
              28 November 2018 15: 35
              Quote: merlin
              BMD data: 1936 - 1 people; 118 - 1937 people; 353 - 074 1938 people; 328 - 618 1939 people
              From these figures, it is clearly seen that in 1937 the number of people sentenced to the highest degree was 316 times more than in 1936.


              Pay attention to 1939. This Yezhov was replaced by the bloody executioner and sex maniac Beria Lavrenty Pavlovich.
          2. +5
            13 September 2018 13: 43
            Quote: Serge Gorely
            these years were the period of the purge of the Leninist guard and the "creative intelligentsia"

            Unfortunately, not only. This also affected the villages, at least mine (near Luga, Leningrad Region). During the civil war no one was shot at, no one was hanged. When the men disarmed prodotryad, they were dispersed, but did not even put anyone. But in 37-38 there were both arrests and executions. I read the criminal case of my great-grandfather (shot in 38, with two more). In the materials of the prosecution, of course, politics is the Social Revolutionary plot, anti-Soviet agitation, etc. In fact, idle talk about the dangers of collective farms and evidence of the benefits of self-management (primarily by personal example).
            In short, for all the time from the beginning to the middle of the twentieth century. in the village there were two "waves" of arrests - in 38th and in 45th, when three accomplices of the Germans were arrested. Those who were arrested in '38 were shot, those in '45 were sentenced to ten years. At the same time, the participants in the Perechitsk uprising (against the food detachments) and the members of the "Bulak-Balakhovich gang" lived and did not grieve in the village, but only those who had left the collective farm by 37 and lived prosperously were arrested and shot.
            So there were repressions, and they were precisely political, that is, they were imprisoned and shot not for specific crimes, but for expressing disagreement with the government's policy, and they affected all segments of the population, and not just the "Leninist guard" and "creative intelligentsia ".
            1. +6
              13 September 2018 19: 51
              Quote: Trilobite Master
              In the prosecution materials, of course, politics is a Socialist-Revolutionary conspiracy, anti-Soviet agitation, etc. In fact - idle talk about the dangers of collective farms

              Those. counterrevolutionary propaganda.

              So there were repressions, and they were exactly political, that is, they planted and shot not for specific crimes, but for expressing disagreement

              Repression is a punishment carried out by state bodies for violation of state laws (i.e. for crimes and offenses).

              Political repression is a slang expression referring to cases falling under the section of the Criminal Code "crimes against the state."

              ZY
              According to what article great-grandfather convicted?
              1. -1
                14 September 2018 00: 51
                Quote: Claymore
                Political repression is a slang term,

                Quote: Claymore
                Those. counterrevolutionary propaganda.

                Here is "counter-revolutionary propaganda" this is the "slang" of that time. And "political repression" is a very definite concept.
                Quote: Claymore
                According to what article great-grandfather convicted?

                Offhand I do not remember the number of the article - the xeroxed file is kept by the parents. Yes, and whether the issue of the article number?
                In fact, the charges are a complete mess. Just like in Sholokhov's case - "he launched propaganda against the Soviet regime." And the protocol literally: Do you plead guilty? I don’t admit it. And can you still admit it? Realizing the danger of the crimes committed, I admit.
                The evidence base is the testimony of three fellow villagers that "he talked about the harmfulness of collective farms, called us fools, that they did not leave the collective farm, said, they say, I have five cows and two horses, but what do you have?" ... Then, of course, they rehabilitated.
                If you think this is normal, I’m sorry for you. And if you think that this is not political repression, but punishment for a real criminal offense, all the more.
                1. +7
                  14 September 2018 02: 25
                  Quote: Trilobite Master
                  Here is "counter-revolutionary propaganda" this is the "slang" of that time

                  The section of the Criminal Code, which contained the 58th article, was called "counter-revolutionary crimes".

                  The 10th part of the 58th article looked like this - "Propaganda or agitation containing a call for the overthrow, undermining or weakening of Soviet power or for the commission of certain counter-revolutionary crimes ..."

                  Thus, the phrase counter-revolutionary propaganda is not slang, but a completely legal term.

                  And "political repression" is a very definite concept.

                  Which in jurisprudence does not exist.

                  This is a slang expression used in relation to punishment for acts, the responsibility for which is stipulated in the section of the Criminal Code designated as "crimes against the state".

                  Offhand I do not remember the number of the article - the xeroxed file is kept by the parents. Yes, and whether the issue of the article number?

                  Of course in the issue - the supreme measure was applied very selectively and for very serious acts.

                  At the same time, the fact that the great-grandson does not even remember the article number directly indicates that he did not get acquainted with the case of his great-grandfather, and that means his statement about a complete zilch is nothing more than idle talk.

                  And if you think that this is not political repression, but a punishment for a real criminal offense - even more so.

                  My dear, "political repression" is a punishment for a crime against the state, responsibility for which is provided for in one of the articles penal code.
                  1. -4
                    14 September 2018 13: 38
                    Even reluctance to argue with you, so poor and primitive your judgments. No.
                    I don’t remember the number of the article, since I’ve been leafing through the case for the last time more than ten years ago, but the evidence base of the prosecution brought you almost verbatim, though concisely.
                    As for the concept of "political repression", read Art. 1 of the Law "On Rehabilitation" of 1991, at the same time familiarize yourself with the sanctions of Article 58 of the Criminal Code of the RSFSR, in particular, for which the death penalty was relied on, in short, educate yourself "my dear" ...
                    Maybe less nonsense will begin to write.
                    1. +5
                      14 September 2018 14: 44
                      Quote: Trilobite Master
                      Even the reluctance to argue with you, your judgments are so miserable and primitive

                      This phrase can be repeated 20 more times, but it will not become less subjective and less unfounded.

                      I don’t remember the article number, since the last time I flipped through a case more than ten years ago

                      Memory maiden?

                      but the evidence base of the prosecution brought you almost verbatim, albeit in synopsis

                      The subjective judgment and presentation of the evidence base of the prosecution are very different things.

                      As for the concept of "political repression", read Art. 1 of the Law "On Rehabilitation" 1991

                      Better you re-read the preamble of this document, and then try to find in the 58th "political" article of the Criminal Code of the RSFSR in the 26th edition of the punishment provided for political and religious beliefs.
                      And then try to find the phrases "political crimes" or "political repression" in at least one of the ever existing criminal codes.

                      read the sanctions of article 58 of the Criminal Code of the RSFSR, in particular, for what the death penalty relied on

                      Judging by the "evidence base of the accusation" given by you, the capital punishment could be assigned to your great-grandfather only in 2 cases:
                      1 for propaganda or agitation containing a call to overthrow, undermine or weaken the Soviet power or to commit certain counter-revolutionary crimes in conditions of mass unrest or with the use of religious or national prejudices;
                      2 for organizational activities aimed at preparing or committing crimes against the state, as well as participation in an organization formed to prepare or commit one of such crimes.

                      The above is a very serious act, so it’s not for you to make statements about someone’s stupidity.
            2. +4
              14 September 2018 00: 40
              Your strange village ...
              I also have repressed in the family - but they were simply sent to the settlement. And yes, they really were fists, and which ones. By the way - in a new place, in Siberia they settled down well, they wrote letters.
              My wife did, yes, the ancestor was a small artisan but they sent him away. But they didn’t shoot him, and didn’t even put him in prison! By the way, the family returned a year later and a year later he himself and no one, mind you did not touch them.
              I know about people who sat down for conversations, for example, one loved to sing the ditties "raspberry malin, stalin's big ... more than Rykov and Peter the Great" - for which he sat down for 5 years. But they didn’t shoot. And in general I don't know anybody from the villages who were shot.
              Can you exaggerate a bit of that? Or a lot ...
              1. 0
                14 September 2018 15: 38
                Quote: Beringovsky
                Can you exaggerate a bit of that? Or a lot ...

                I will not, of course, spread the materials of the case here. You just have to believe or not believe my word. I have no desire to cast a shadow on the fence, I only write about what I see as I see it. There were the following documents in the case: a fellow villager's statement, that is, a denunciation, a certificate from the village council about the property status of the great-grandfather, a report about the arrest, a search report on the house (nothing was seized), two or three protocols of the interrogation of the accused, three protocols of the interrogation of the witness, the minutes of the special troika meeting, certificate of enforcement of the sentence. The rest of the documents we were forbidden to retake, they were closed - the pages of the case were placed in impenetrable envelopes. Allowed to get acquainted only with those that directly related to my great-grandfather. And, here, I also forgot about several decisions, including on the prosecution of an accused and, possibly, an indictment. I do not remember exactly whether it was. About 10 years have passed, as the last time looked.
                Believe it or not, and wrote what was in the case.
            3. -5
              14 September 2018 19: 27
              Your village near Luga is not all of Russia. We should remember how the "red marshal" Tukhachevsky, fighting with the Tambov men, used toxic substances, shot hostages, etc. The same can be said about surplus appropriation, etc.
              1. 0
                17 September 2018 11: 56
                About poisonous substances near Tambov for more details please! How much is applied, what, how much has suffered?
              2. 0
                28 November 2018 15: 45
                Quote: Griol
                The same can be said about the surplus appraisal, etc.


                Ask what happened in England during the "fencing", as Queen Victoria hanged more than 100 people for vagrancy ...
          3. BAI
            0
            13 September 2018 16: 04
            the peak of repression fell on 37-38, and 52 years

            I can’t say about 52 years, but the peak is 37-38. Moreover, both in terms of the number of those arrested and the percentage of those shot. In 1936, 0,4% of those arrested were shot, and in 1938, 59,3%.
          4. +4
            13 September 2018 19: 43
            Quote: Serge Gorely
            It’s just that these years had a period of purging the Leninist guard

            "Lenin Guard" - what is this?
            These are, by chance, not the "old Bolsheviks", to which Stalin also considered himself?
            1. -1
              15 September 2018 10: 55
              Quote: Claymore
              "Lenin Guard"

              The trick here is that Trotsky, in the struggle for power, his henchmen and himself, tried to present himself as the only heirs of Lenin, and in fact, the Trotskyists and Trotskyism as a whole played against the USSR, and only then against Stalin, but the idea thrown into society , about the shot "Leninists". In fact, Trotskyists, wanders from resource to resource and just in rumor ..
        2. +1
          13 September 2018 08: 11
          a cross, some kind of catholic, catholics, or were they represen?
        3. +2
          13 September 2018 10: 42
          Actually, everything is quite simple .... And you yourself answered.
          "The Memorial workers have one task, Mr. Samsonov has another. Both of them selflessly continue to feed us with various truths and truths, to expose, to refute and ......"
          What was really there - this ..... is definitely not interesting. Starting with the question - why the Gulag?
          And if the village was sent "to a special settlement" and it was there quietly ..... ended - are these victims of the GULAG? Actually, no one killed anyone, so to speak, themselves. In general, everything is enough with this tsifir ..... interesting. Not to mention who brings her and why. But it is absolutely incomprehensible what is behind this arithmetic. For example, a figure is given for aviation, or there are the same "elephants", say, the era of the Union. How many things, what the delight of patriots ... But it would be interesting to know how much of all this splendor could actually perform combat missions? And for the technical condition, and for the training of crews / crews and ... in general. For example, the number of this / that for today in the RF Armed Forces is given. And right there are links to the fact that of this number really is ... a little less wink
          So it is with the Gulag .... If we are interested in the number of people who fell under the ice rink .... I don’t even know how to say it better so as not to cause another round ..... of an emotional geyser ....
          So there are simply no calculations at all. And it cannot be. Who considered those immigrants? At one time - they thought, at another - no. In the third - they simply did not bother with the topic. Not to mention the quality of domestic statistics ...
          The maximum number of victims of uh-uh "unhealthy processes" falls, according to the veterans of the "office", not at all in the ever-memorable 37th, but a little earlier. The same Solonevich, who saw all this with his own eyes, repeatedly gave examples of how it all worked. So there are not very many claims to the "authorities" as such .... Basically, an "asset". And where to include those whom this very "asset" ate? The office, de jure, was not even close ... But there are no people ...
          In my wretched opinion, the topic is just ..... like this. It is pointless to give any mathematical calculations. If we take the example you gave - one figure. Or you can just bring it out - and into the moat. especially when according to the order ... And how will they write about it later, either "in the basements, or elsewhere, no difference ...
          1. -1
            14 September 2018 01: 02
            Well, what is the conclusion after everything written?
            What are the criteria that should be used for evaluation?
            Maybe the story of your family and those you trust completely? There were people shot - it means they were shot, there were a lot - it means they were shot a lot, but not - it means all the stories and lies about the repression.
            It's all right?
            1. -4
              14 September 2018 11: 39
              And the conclusion is quite simple. IMHO, of course. What interests us? Is it death sentences? Or just the dead? Since in the same LBC people were killed ..., let's say, a lot. So what? They didn't have Vera Mikhailovna, but they stayed there .... And the BBK, you know, was not the only one and was no exception. I'm not talking about just extrajudicial executions. You can read, so to speak, the "classics" - eyewitnesses. They convey the "scent of the era" well. I don't know, fortunately or unfortunately. You can not touch Alexander Isaevich right away))) But they wrote besides him. And now you can read them))) At least the same Solonevich, who I.A.
        4. +2
          13 September 2018 16: 45
          Quote: Kotischa
          my great-grandfather was also repressed and shot

          And why, if not a secret? Just do you know, do you know a lot of innocent (repressed) people around the country today? And you've already written a couple of times about the fact that your grandfather was "repressed and shot" (according to the rules of the Russian language, they write, repress and shoot, well, it doesn't matter), but never once pointed out why and why ... My nephew too They were "repressed", though in the early 1990s, for a hooligan for 4 years, there are 2 more years of imprisonment. "Khlopchik" that my wife and 6 other women had for 2 evenings in our garrison, "took off" jewelry - for 8 years "repressed". Another "innocent" who snatched pensions from grandmothers at the entrances, in our Khurb in the early 2000s, was also "repressed" ... If you write that your ancestor was repressed, so honestly write for what ...
          1. Cat
            +7
            13 September 2018 20: 07
            Quote: Fitter65
            Quote: Kotischa
            my great-grandfather was also repressed and shot

            And why, if not a secret? Just do you know, do you know a lot of innocent (repressed) people around the country today? And you've already written a couple of times about the fact that your grandfather was "repressed and shot" (according to the rules of the Russian language, they write, repress and shoot, well, it doesn't matter), but never once pointed out why and why ... My nephew too They were "repressed", though in the early 1990s, for a hooligan for 4 years, there are 2 more years of imprisonment. "Khlopchik" that my wife and 6 other women had for 2 evenings in our garrison, "took off" jewelry - for 8 years "repressed". Another "innocent" who snatched pensions from grandmothers at the entrances, in our Khurb in the early 2000s, was also "repressed" ... If you write that your ancestor was repressed, so honestly write for what ...

            I will try to answer your attack.
            Great-grandfather was a Cossack, Chebarkul district (p. Kasigach) managed to fight first for the whites and then for the red. During the NEP years, he installed a mill, had a sausage factory. Fortunately 12 children, my grandmother is one of the youngest. In the early 30s, the mill and the factory were nationalized, but the great-grandfather was left as a director, since he was already a Bolshevik since 1921. In 1935 he was arrested on denunciation for criticizing collective farms at a party meeting. Later they were taken to Chebarkul, where they were expelled from the party, condemned as a political one and sentenced. The verdict was carried out a year later in Chelyabinsk. I did not establish the grave from the documents. The family of my great-grandfather was not evicted, the uncles continued working at the mill and sausage factory. Although the little ones, including my grandmother (of them the oldest), grieved. The older uncles renounced their father immediately after the arrest and did not help the mother. The younger ones were lifted by myself. From the memoirs of her grandmother, it was the norm for her to live with her mother's aunts. At the age of 15, she already worked in a hairdressing salon, where she met my grandfather. This topic in our family was "taboo". Although the great-grandfather was officially rehabilitated in the 50s. The most interesting thing, when in the late 90s I began to unravel this tangle, it turned out that benefits "like children of the repressed" are received by those who turned their backs on their great-grandfather, the rest did not even bother with this.
            So somewhere like that.
            Yours!
            1. +1
              14 September 2018 00: 27
              Thank you for the answer. I have no more questions for you.
            2. -1
              14 September 2018 19: 13
              My friend, you at least compose something at least believable. A party member since 21 years old and NEPman, the owner of mills and sausages. BALABOL !!!
        5. -5
          13 September 2018 18: 52
          Speculation on repressions is known, but there is no need to shield large-scale extermination of entire layers of citizens (wealthy peasants, priests, etc.). Having generalized, the following conclusions come about: Kobe - And Dzhugashvili-Stalin - could not become such a sole dictator and defeat such mammoths of the party struggle, being a second-rate technical performer, clearly had "sponsors" and assistants ... Considering his fate, from the Baku stage , there is an overlap with the British (their possibilities in Baku are unlimited until 1917). And then, according to whose teachings, and perhaps the assignment, he went on his own to the still little-known, but promising V. Ulyanov in Switzerland, got into the environment (completely Jewish, although Dzhugashvili is translated from Georgian as the son of a Jew, therefore they do not find traces of his father) and became his courier across Europe. (Either the "Okhranka", or the British sent?) The fact that Koba was recruited by the "Security Department" is a fact established but later erased from everywhere (in exile he was very worried about that and lay facing the wall for days - from the memoirs of exiled neighbors). The guard disappeared, but the British could continue to lead "into the dark", having calculated the personality and character of Koba. An example of the one who created the eavesdropping system in Stalin's office, all the top leaders of the state from 1923 and onwards, could listen to all the conversations of top officials of the state, without being an authorized person, F. Dzerzhinsky, and he did not have that. In those first years after Lenin's death, dressed in all white, completely standing out among the entire leadership, whose "image maker" was working even then? And later he began to "work": he destroyed the old Leninist guard, carried out forced collectivization with the extermination of the most productive stratum of peasants, began programs of militarization and armament at the expense of everything in the state, five-year plans and industrialization not for the people, but for weapons, - there are no spoons in the country it was, and the tanks were already under construction .. Meaning, the British with great colonial experience, and having imposed a certain kind of ruler, he himself would ruin the state and in the end he would exhaust it, squeezing all the juices out of the people. Stalin left the empire, the most powerful army, but the people were the most downtrodden and poor, thus undermining the future of statehood. And so the attempt to build a bright future for mankind collapsed, for Stalin transferred to sole dictatorship using the people only as a means for pseudo-socialism in his "infallible" course, but essentially anti-people, without making an example that drove a militarized and impoverished country into the outcasts of the world. And on the heels, with all the anti-Soviet rhetoric, THE ENGLISH DOES EVERYTHING TO KEEP STALIN UNDER THE POWER, after WWII they created the Cold War and the "Iron Curtain", which always plays into the hands of dictators, and there are enough other examples of this.
        6. 0
          14 September 2018 18: 59
          Why is Mr. Samsonov? Or are you afraid to use the word "comrade"?
      2. -2
        13 September 2018 21: 36
        I mean, the Unified State Site for Victims of Repression, with the support of the state, and not only victims of repression, but also victims of concentration camps, wars, and labor exploits of our brothers and sisters, of all nations, without scruples and prejudices, so that everyone can go small and big to the site and see, feel that pain, suffering and titanic efforts of the people. We are all eager to yell from the high bell tower, but we don’t really like the facts and arguments.
      3. +2
        14 September 2018 00: 31
        Vasily50:
        In 2017, the Veche publishing house in Moscow published a book by the Jew Igor Goldman "Stalin should have died." This is a complete falsification of historical and archival data, a bunch of obvious forgeries and slander against famous statesmen, writers, publicists and poets.
    2. +17
      13 September 2018 06: 37
      The true data show a reality that is fundamentally different from that which is being introduced from the school bench into the minds of people both in the West and in Russia itself.

      It is not true that Russia does not have an ideology that is prohibited by the constitution. In fact, the ruling elite and the "elite" have an ideology - this is anti-Sovietism !!! Most of the TV and radio channels were created for this. Newspapers and school programs (Solzhenitsyn in the school curriculum or the year of Solzhenitsyn), Yeltsin centers and memorials to victims of repression. There are plenty of anti-Soviets in the government, public and financial structures. Endless Venedikts, Mlechins, Gozmans, Chubais, Brewers and other Wellers tell us for days about the horrors of Stalinism. Yes, the patriots were a little flustered after "Krymnash", but by raising taxes and the retirement age, the liberals made it clear that the course towards the destruction of Russia in their execution remains unchanged.
      1. +1
        14 September 2018 10: 53
        Quote: Z.O.V.
        It’s not true that Russia does not have ideology that is prohibited by the constitution.

        Well, this is not true! An ideology that is prohibited by the constitution is very much there. wassat
        That's just anti-Sovietism - it is just not prohibited, but is a state ideology in the purest, purest form, just as long as this fact is not too prominent.
    3. +7
      13 September 2018 06: 56
      Quote: merkava-2bet
      I think you just need to release a book based on historical data.

      if the data contradict the minds of patients with brain liberalism they simply reject them
    4. -14
      13 September 2018 06: 59
      Quote: merkava-2bet
      I think you just need to release a book based on archival data, and create a website with a complete listing of all convicted, executed and most importantly by what articles. Yes, the work is not simple, but very important in all aspects, especially moral and psychological

      Such work is underway with 1988 years, regional memory books have been created where the data that you mentioned is indicated: last name, first name, middle name, year of birth, place of birth, education, place of work, date of arrest, condemning authority, date of conviction, sentence, date of execution (in the case of VMN) .
      For example, the book of memory of Smolensk region, for example:
      Nikolaev Efim Kuzmich, 1888 R. A native of Roslavl. d.Lyubestovo. Russian; b / p. collective farmer. Place of residence: Roslavl. d.Lyubestovo. Arrested on 11.10.37/21.11.37/58. Convicted 10,11/07.12.37/XNUMX Troika UNKVD Zap. reg. Articles of accusation: XNUMX-XNUMX. Shot on XNUMX.

      Nikolaev Andrey Afanasevich, 1877 R. A native of Yartsev.ro. d.Trunovo. Russian; b / p. Yartsev. Zagotzerno office, a carpenter. Place of residence: Yartsev.ro. d.Trunovo. Arrested on 19.10.37/03.11.37/58. Convicted 10,11 Three of the UNKVD Smol. reg. Articles of accusation: 11.11.37-XNUMX. Shot on XNUMX.
      Etc.

      Soviet punitive system ne was something out of the ordinary.


      It is proposed to simply abide and respect current legislation of the Russian Federation, where this system is condemned
      16.01.89 Decree of the Presidium of the Supreme Soviet of the USSR "On additional measures to restore justice in relation to victims of repressions that took place in the period 30-40s and early 50s"

      14.11.89/XNUMX/XNUMX Declaration of the Supreme Soviet of the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics "On the recognition of illegal and criminal acts of repression against the peoples subjected to forced resettlement, and ensuring their rights"

      13.08.90 Decree of the President of the USSR "On the restoration of the rights of all victims of political repression of the 20-50s"

      26.04.91/26/1991 Law of the RSFSR of April 1107, 1 N 1993-I "On the rehabilitation of repressed peoples" (as amended on July XNUMX, XNUMX No.
      )

      By the way, maybe someone will indicate in which other country of the world they shot about 680 thousand / 30 days / 12 months per day =1888 peopleHow was it from August 1937 to August 1938? Even if the names of the daily "indicator" are printed in small print, no newspaper will be enough.
      1. +1
        13 September 2018 09: 39
        Hello Andrei. I sincerely do not understand for what audience Samsonov writes his articles ?! To put it mildly, surprising are such phrases of the author as "the myth of the bloody terror", the Bolsheviks are Russian communists "," Russia - the USSR ", etc. The author does not know about the red terror as a complex of punitive measures carried out by the Bolsheviks at the LEGISLATIVE level since 1918 ?! What kind of country is Russia - the USSR ?! Was there Russia in the USSR or the USSR was in Russia ?! Repeatedly in various articles the expression Bolsheviks - Russian communists used by the author just causes a squeamish grin - where the author, among this international company of professional revolutionaries called the Bolsheviks, saw Russian communists a mystery of nature! The greatest merit of Stalin, just can be considered that he gouged all these faithful Leninists and completely non-Russians from the word at all! For what purpose this was done is a separate question!
        Whom and what does the author want to convince? What the USSR is like Russia? Yes, there was no Russia in the USSR! There was some kind of entity called the RSFSR in which even the Communist Party was not unlike the other 14 republics! Or does he want to hammer some here the idea that the Soviet is Russian? This partly true Soviet, really were Russians, Belarusians and a little bit Ukrainians in the east! All the rest were Georgians, Armenians and other Latvians ... Am I wrong?
        Well, now about the repressions! Well, let's take even on faith the numbers indicated by Samsonov ... Have you taken it? Think it over! After all, this is horror! Speaking about the fact that all of this is for the most part thieves - murderers - repeat offenders - rapists, the author simply commits a terrible sin that offends the memory of innocently killed of which there were many. Lots of. In order to imagine the scale, let everyone remember their ancestors. Honestly remember! Without political likes and dislikes. Now, when we hear about the repressed and those who died from our relatives, friends, colleagues, acquaintances ... then the truth of the Russian tragedy will loom around! Is it that Samsonov in Russia had so many rapists and murderers ?!
        1. +4
          13 September 2018 09: 54
          Quote: Oper
          What kind of country is this Russia-the USSR ?! Was there Russia in the USSR or was the USSR in Russia?! ..
          ... Whom and what does the author want to convince? What the USSR is like Russia? Yes, there was no Russia in the USSR!

          maybe garbage enough to suffer? !!!


          Quote: Oper
          Without political likes and dislikes. That's when we hear about repressed and dead from our relatives, friends, colleagues, acquaintances ...

          I correctly understood that if it is OUR PERSONAL acquaintance, relatives or friends, then definitely they are not guilty?
          1. +1
            13 September 2018 10: 31
            Well, tell us about yours. You surely have repressed people in your family? Well, or frayed, dispossessed ... If in your own family murderers and thieves, or even rapists (of course they also planted them), I offer you my condolences! In my native Tambov, Saratov peasants and Siberian Cossacks, everyone was repressed! At the same time, the ancestor of the Bolsheviks was the grandfathers cousin Cossack - he, along with a full barge of other people (I can’t know their guilt) was drowned on the Yenisei! The mother’s grandmother’s family in the Saratov region was simply driven into exile because lived well. These were ordinary peasants. There were many men in the family, they worked a lot. There was a Circassian hired worker who lived as a family member with them! There were two horses, a cow, another living creature ... That’s why they suffered for the Circassian - hired labor! My grandmother’s brother was a Komsomol member, but that didn’t help. They came first to arrest him, but he was warned and he jumped out of the window what he was in, and it was winter! Of course, things were handed over to him, but they drove everyone somewhere the very next day. They took it in time. And Uncle Vanya (Komsomolets) was walking somewhere nearby by a forest skiing behind them ... They fed him secretly. In short, after two weeks of such a campaign, suddenly for some reason they were returned back. But of course they all took away. Starving. Great-grandfather died and grandmother nearly died. Uncle Vanya went through the whole war under other people's documents! He had orders and medals. In my family, absolutely everything was fought except for my father’s mother; there were 5 children in the family. All awarded! And almost everyone was injured too! My paternal grandfather died of wounds almost immediately after the war. Such a contra. According to his father, the Tambov peasants. They also lived roughly, like their mother’s family, and they also just came and took everything away! Father remembers how his grandmother once drove him down the street and spoke in a whisper - the boooo in my hut went scribbling my fathers was a gift ... Father says all this was probably because in their village many men traditionally served in the Life Guards Semenovsky regiment. My great-grandfather also served ... They burnt their own but a little, but mostly the visiting commissars and students, as their great-grandfather called them. He described their nationality even more ornately and accurately, but I will not write about it here. Also, of course, starving. My father died two little sisters Sasha and Maroussia 4 and 6 years old. Malnourished and sick. This was already during the famine after the war.
            If your relative Vladimir Vasilenko suffered for the cause, I nonetheless sincerely express my condolences to you.
            The monument in the photo is good and correct. But Russia was not in the USSR!
            1. +10
              13 September 2018 11: 48
              About 20 years ago, one comrade (giving lectures) asked to raise his hand from whom the grandfather died during the war, and from whom both grandfathers (like mine) to raise two hands. Always a forest of hands, more than half of the audience (usually the audience was 100-200 people), and then asked to raise the hands of those whose grandfathers or great-grandfathers were shot or "tortured by Stalin in the camps." How many hands do you think were raised? One two maximum, but more often none at all. And this despite the fact that 18-20 years old, who did not leave offspring, almost completely died in the war. So much for "statistics", from all sorts of liberals and democrats.
              PS If you don't believe me, then do the same experiment in any campaign. Out of all my acquaintances, only one was shot, and that in Western Ukraine right after the war ... At night they broke into a hut, took out and shot, and who? Maybe the NKVD, or maybe someone "worked under the NKVD."
              1. +1
                13 September 2018 12: 35
                I am neither a liberal nor a democrat. And I did not suggest that you conduct experiments, but simply think about even the "smallest" number of those who were repressed and shot by someone else! During the war, thank God my relatives did not die. Both grandfathers were injured and the paternal grandfather died of his wounds in 1946. Therefore, the family barely survived the post-war famine. His two little daughters died, I wrote above. But everyone was repressed! I certainly have no personal grudge. I have not experienced all this. I know the details from the words of my father, mother, aunt, uncle, grandmothers and one grandfather. Should I have some motive for suspecting them of lies? Not only that, that my mother's relatives were Cossacks, I generally learned at a fairly conscious age. The family simply did not talk about it. I also did not know that part of his paternal relatives, 2 of his uncle, actively participated in the Tambov uprising. They lived in the very village of Khitrovo, Tambov district, where the first food detachment was disarmed, simply muffled the peasants with their extortions! They both died. Stalin's repressions cannot be viewed in isolation from the Red Terror since 1918 in general! By separating one from the other, you will never get the whole picture! "Raise your hands, lower your hands ..." You know the general and exact number of the innocent victims, we will never know. There are many of them and each unit has a separate human destiny. That's what I mean! And the accusations thrown in the article against these people, as just criminals, are nothing more than blasphemy.
                1. +7
                  13 September 2018 13: 36
                  Quote: Oper
                  You know the total and accurate figures of the innocent victims, we will never know

                  clear stump is known only to Solzhenitsyn and others like him! and official reports certainly lie ... the vile KGB, NKVD and other tyranny bodies deliberately distorted them ...
                  and what if they knew that for such a thing they themselves would be shot.
                  For contrast, you will take an interest in how many people in the USA were convicted and attracted to the military in the 30 years and how many people simply starved to death.
              2. -6
                13 September 2018 13: 51
                Quote: mavrus
                Как you think how many hands were raised? One two maximum, but more often none at all.

                It must be understood that repressed offspring are often simply could not leave . Mortality among special migrants (and these are peasants!) Exceeded the birth rate FORTY FORTY times (Zemskov)!

                A living example, the wife of my grandmother’s brother, comes from a village near Pochep, (Bryansk region). In 1932 she was still a teenager (13 years old), besides her there were SIX children, parents and grandmother, only 10 people
                In winter, they kicked us out of the hut, did not even allow us to take good winter clothes, tore them off our shoulders, left one flaw, did not let us take our own food, put them on a train.
                Exported somewhere beyond the Urals, unloaded in the forest. Seeing that death had come, the husband pulled out the Nikolaev gold coin deeply hidden on the most rainy day and rushed to the feet of the guard soldiers, praying by God God to save and hide the oldest one. They hid it and let it out at the nearest station. I got into an orphanage, was at the front (bath-laundry), got married, gave birth to three wonderful children.
                Her parents and six sister-brothers perished without a trace ...
                . So they did not leave their descendants (and this, about 15 people), these exiled children, who never became adults.
                Therefore, there are few who have raised their hands ........
                1. 0
                  13 September 2018 14: 43
                  And one more thing: the wife’s grandmother in the family had 10 children and 4 adults (Bessarabia), the family was appointed for dispossession (1949, in my opinion). But times were already softer and such a horde without the head of the family did not dare to send.
                  So when they came to evict (and this was three times) the wife’s grandfather always flashed out the window and hid behind the village for a couple of days.
                  I have never touched the family! Several months passed, the campaign came to naught, and the family healed calmly, as if nothing had happened: they worked on a collective farm, studied, served, etc.
                  So why touch it? request

                  His brother was so unlucky: they sent the family to the Baikal region.
                  But, they got accustomed there so much that they didn’t return even after the collapse of the Union, they only came to visit and went home to Russia.
            2. +2
              13 September 2018 11: 53
              Quote: Oper
              The monument in the photo is good and correct. But Russia was not in the USSR!

              that is, the inscription is a photo montage?
              Quote: Oper
              +1
              Well, tell us about yours. You surely have repressed people in your family? Well, or frayed, dispossessed ...

              yes, my great-grandfather was a senior commander, went to work and did not return, but neither my grandmother nor great-grandmother were repressed after that.
              claim that he did not participate in the "conspiracy of Tukhachevsky" I have no opportunity
              1. -4
                13 September 2018 12: 56
                Well, see? If we listen to more stories here, we will even imagine remotely the scale of what happened! If there were so many spies, enemies of the people and other contra in the country, then maybe the contra was actually on the other side ?! The inscription on the monument is not a photo montage; these are famous words spoken by political instructor Klochkov. Good words said by the patriot. What's next? Did we talk about this?
                1. +3
                  13 September 2018 15: 52
                  Quote: Oper
                  If there were so many spies, enemies of the people and other contra in the country, then maybe the contra was actually on the other side ?!

                  tell me the inclusion of a fool is it natural or a lifestyle ?!
                  for the sake of interest, study the statistics on the number of prisoners at that time and now
            3. +3
              14 September 2018 19: 24
              RUSSIA IN THE USSR was !!!! RSFSR-Russian Socialist Federative Soviet Republic. !!!! By the way. Year-olds then you. How much, writer, what do you remember your great-grandfather-fist? 100 years. Probably?
        2. -1
          13 September 2018 11: 44
          Quote: Oper
          Hello Andrei.

          Hello Igor!
          Quote: Oper
          Soviet, indeed, were Russians, Belarusians and a bit of Ukrainians in the east! All the rest were Georgians, Armenians and other Latvians ... Am I wrong?

          Of course, they are right. I know firsthand.
          Quote: Oper
          Well, let's take even on faith the numbers indicated by Samsonov ... Have you taken it? Think it over! After all, this is horror!

          Do not even take the numbers.
          We must try to understand a simple truth: in those years they lived SUCH PEOPLEas we are today and they wanted the samethat we are today: raising children, happiness in the family and prosperity. They also loved life and were also afraid of pain and injustice.
          How does the Nazinskaya tragedy (Fr. Nazino on the Ob) of 1933 fit into this, when thousands of people (uncondemned by anyone!), Landed on an uninhabited island in frosty weather, without food (“Let them graze!” Said the head of the convoy) and the shelter tossed about for weeks there in search of salvation? It ended in mass death, wild mutual murders and cannibalism of people brought to the wildest state.
          Here are just a few of them:
          1. Novozhilov Vl. from Moscow. Plant Compressor. Chauffeur. 3 times bonus. Wife and child in Moscow. Having finished work, he gathered with his wife at the cinema, while she dressed, went out for cigarettes and was taken.
          2. Gusev, an elderly woman. Lives in Murom, the husband is an old communist, the main conductor at the station. Murom, prod. 23 years experience, son assistant driver there. Guseva came to Moscow to buy her husband a suit and white bread. No documents helped.
          3. Zelenin Gregory. He worked as an apprentice fitter at the Red October weaving factory of Borovsk, traveling with a ticket to Moscow for treatment. The ticket did not help - it was "taken", etc.
          These data were collected by the indifferent instructor of the local district committee Velichko, thank you very much for writing and at least a small part of the people were taken to other huts, but on the shore.
          WHAT did they experience during the arrest on the island?

          And what did millions of exiled (also without any trial) Russian peasants who did not violate any Soviet laws experience? From whom ALL-houses, money, utensils, livestock, tools, even wearing clothes were taken away even in winter frost, with small childrensent north to the huts from poles? Thus, about a million children were exiled. What are the children for? What did their mothers and fathers experience when, being unable to warm them, feed them, powerlessly watched them go out and leave? It is impossible to read even dry documents (Narym tragedy) about this, not to mention the memories ....
          I know one thing to forget about these our fellow citizenswho have not received their share of happiness is not at all possible.
          1. +2
            13 September 2018 13: 12
            I also spoke about it, Andrey. I wrote about the peasants above. Now, when I listen to my father about what he saw and experienced, what my grandfather and great-grandfather told me, I catch myself thinking of some kind of distant perception of this. As if all this was not in this life, but in some sort of parallel reality. But he talks about some details ... What a holiday it was when there was meat in the house and how everyone sat down at the table after father and took food from a common pot only after father too. The meat in general is strongly said - this is all that was left and that it was impossible to sell and it was rare. After the war, they managed to survive the famine thanks to the potatoes from which they even baked bread. How to catch spikelets ...
            You just need to tell the truth, and not tell tales - all were criminals! Samsonov wants to ask one single question at all - are you a person at all?
            1. 0
              22 September 2018 00: 31
              the chairman of the collective farm wrote to my grandmother — he sowed wheat on an abandoned plot of land (next to his house — almost in the center of the village) and harvested in the summer, and the chairman wrote that she had stolen ... sorted out - they gave him a hat, the plot was handed over to the grandmother in private official use, the grandmother had five children and a husband who did not return from the war. after a while, her daughter (my aunt) married a former sergeant sergeant, whom he served after - not in the know. such are the repressions in my family. so living in a pine forest - oaks can not be seen, not even know what it is ...
      2. The comment was deleted.
      3. +2
        13 September 2018 20: 38
        According to other sources, Zemtsov’s version was executed from 1921 to 1953 - 642,980 people
    5. -4
      13 September 2018 07: 01
      So all this has long been!
    6. -3
      13 September 2018 09: 19
      There are not only books, but also studies based on archival data, only the author does not cite them. Because then the picture for him will be completely depressing.
    7. 0
      13 September 2018 12: 43
      This is not beneficial for the authorities, there is no exact data, depending on the situation, it is possible to praise or scold Stalin and the USSR.
    8. +8
      13 September 2018 19: 57
      Why do you think Americans don’t publish books about repression in the USA in the 30s?
    9. +5
      13 September 2018 21: 17
      ... and Solzhenitsyn - into the furnace.
    10. +4
      14 September 2018 04: 54
      A site called AntiMemorial am
    11. +1
      14 September 2018 16: 30
      Not only a book, but also a multilingual site. And promote both the book and the site.
    12. -1
      15 September 2018 19: 52
      Better yet, post scans of the cases of all convicts on the Internet (always with the attachment of motivators - denunciations, acts of checks, other documents). Like the OBD "Memorial", "Memory of the people", "The feat of the people". Then all the "snowdrops" will emerge. And also documents on rehabilitation, to see the grounds for rehabilitation. There are many cases when they were rehabilitated not because of the innocence of the convicted person, but because of the "illegitimacy" of the body that passed the sentence. That is, the criminal was automatically made innocent. If the verdict is declared invalid due to the fact that it was passed by an unlawful organ from the point of view of legitimacy, this cannot mean that the convicted person is not guilty. In this case, the case must be further investigated. Then real justice will prevail. And the names of informers, investigators, judges, as well as the crimes of "innocently sat down" will become known. At the same time, I propose to categorically abandon the label "executioner" to the above categories of citizens (investigators, judges), because this insults the specialty of a person chosen (appointed) by society to perform the specific function of cleaning this very society from a harmful element.
      1. 0
        15 September 2018 20: 17
        to perform the specific function of cleaning this very society from a harmful element

        I will add: "by a court verdict based on the materials of the investigation." Thus, the actual executioner does not have a subjective attitude to the justice or injustice of the sentence. The executioner can be blamed only for the use of methods and methods of killing that are not provided for by law and that increase the suffering of the victim, as well as for immoral actions against the victim before, during and after the execution.
    13. 0
      7 December 2018 08: 13
      The point is. Whoever believes and will believe. he who does not want to believe will not.
    14. 0
      23 May 2020 15: 42
      This is what Memorial is doing, they have information about the repressed and simply convicted. If you wish, you can request a personal file from the archive, but you need to work hard. It is even possible to apply for rehabilitation, but not all those who have been in prison will be rehabilitated. So the information about the prisoners is not a secret, but it is not so easy to understand who was in prison for a real atrocity, and who was undeserved. https://www.memo.ru
  2. The comment was deleted.
  3. +1
    13 September 2018 05: 57
    Quote: merkava-2bet
    .. site with a complete listing of all convicted, executed and most importantly on what counts.

    In almost every area (region) there are books of memory in both electronic and paper forms. My grandfather was one of many innocently injured; only twenty days passed from arrest to execution. I can not agree with the author, who is trying to reduce the number of repressed citizens, although there is still no specific figure.
    1. +8
      13 September 2018 06: 44
      I can not agree with the author, who is trying to reduce the number of repressed citizens, although there is still no specific figure.
      The victims of the Trotskyists are counted by different historians to the accuracy of thousands of people. Data vary due to loss of documents during WWII, fires and other disasters. Very good work on the scale of repression here: - M.SOUSA "Gulag: Archives against lies." http://trudoros.narod.ru/teor/repress_sousa.htm
      1. -3
        13 September 2018 09: 20
        Quote: Z.O.V.
        Victims of the Trotskyists

        Dear Anatoly. I would like to correct you. Not the Trotskyists, but the Communists. The Trotskyists ended in 1928.
    2. +3
      13 September 2018 06: 57
      Quote: AlexVas44
      My grandfather was one of many innocently injured.

      who worked or served whose article was condemned?
      1. 0
        13 September 2018 07: 45
        Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir
        who worked or served whose article was condemned?


        MOROZOV Ivan Dmitrievich
        Born in 1891, native of the village of Maltsevo, Chukhloma region. Place of work - Chukhlomsky regional communication department, acting assistant chief. He lived - the city of Chukhloma, Chukhloma district, Yaroslavl region. Arrested on 06.08.1937/25.08.1937/26.08.1937 Anti-Soviet agitation. Subversive wrecking activity. Participation in a counter-revolutionary organization. Terror intentions. Article of the Criminal Code is not specified. Decision of 14.10.1959 - VMN. Date of execution - XNUMX/XNUMX/XNUMX Rehabilitated XNUMX/XNUMX/XNUMX
        Considered in the "MEMORY BOOK of victims of political repression of the Kostroma region. Volume 3 »
        1. 0
          13 September 2018 08: 59
          Quote: AlexVas44
          Anti-Soviet agitation.

          was ?!
          1. 0
            13 September 2018 09: 09
            Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir
            was ?!

            As well as subversive wrecking activity. Participation in a counter-revolutionary organization. Terror intentions. hi
            1. 0
              13 September 2018 09: 13
              in the sense of yes or in the sense of no?
              By the way, where is the confidence in this or that?
              1. -3
                13 September 2018 13: 57
                Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir
                in the sense of yes or in the sense of no?
                By the way, where is the confidence in this or that?


                The person was REHABILITATED by the state, what is not clear to you?
                Or now you will arrange a trial, right or not? belay
                1. +4
                  13 September 2018 15: 54
                  Quote: Olgovich
                  The person was REHABILITATED by the state, what is not clear to you?

                  that is, Beria was an English spy ?!
                  1. -6
                    13 September 2018 20: 47
                    But the youth of L. Beria was held in the Musavatisk of Azerbaijan, where the British were the main mentors and L.P. Beria could well get into the British agents, and his growth in the party (assiduity in executions in Georgia, as an indicator of the duplicity and meanness of traitors), is possible supported by the external assistance of curators .... You were surprised at the processes of the 30-40s for accusing you of working for the Japanese, but many, when you were revolutionaries in 1904-5 (and this was not so long ago) had connections with Japanese intelligence and received money to roar. activity in Russia. (the strikes of 1904-5 were entirely based on Japanese money) and the accusations had a basis ... This, according to L.P. Beria, is quite possible, but when they occupy the highest posts, then there is some kind of rebirth and they work only for themselves and their place in the sun authorities....
                    1. +6
                      14 September 2018 07: 06
                      Quote: Vladimir 5
                      +1
                      But the youth of L. Beria was held in the Musavatisk of Azerbaijan, where the British were the main mentors and L.P. Beria could well get into the British agents, and his growth in the party

                      well, and after that he leads a nuclear project that successfully ends, thanks in part to Beria, as a result of which the West is deprived of one of the main arguments and does not start the war it was striving for, well, do not tell people
                      1. -6
                        14 September 2018 14: 33
                        You do not understand global strategies, it was beneficial for the Anglo-Saxons to keep the USSR as an enemy, and to maintain the regime in power (they even planted an atomic bomb). With such an anti-people regime (demagogy and some positive aspects in the USSR do not outweigh the main oppressive and destructive, mainly Russians, system of Stalinism), the Anglo-Saxons do not need to fight, only support the Cold War regime, and Russia will always be a lagging and unfavorable country for life. After the collapse of the USSR, the Anglo-Saxons quietly started talking that they had destroyed the USSR in vain, now Russia can revive and overtake in many respects the Angolosax. To do this, they used the tactics of the anti-Russian government, which we have with the cabinet of ministers of the liberals, who, with a budget surplus and foreign trade, keep the development of Russia at zero ...
                  2. +1
                    13 September 2018 21: 21
                    Well, a medical fact! And Mikoyan was the 27th commissar, but seeped between the trickles, and the 26 commissars were not people at all, according to Yesenin, they dug out of the sand and crawled away somewhere.
                    By the way, the grave of 26 banana commissars was exhumed recently in Baku, there are 23 skeletons there, and Stepan Shaumyan is not there either. Also leaked.
                  3. -5
                    14 September 2018 06: 06
                    Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir
                    Quote: Olgovich
                    The person was REHABILITATED by the state, what is not clear to you?

                    that is, Beria was an English spy ?!

                    The state of ALL said about him:
                    The definition of the Military Collegium of the Supreme Court of the Russian Federation of May 29, 2002, Beria as organizer of political repression was found not to be rehabilitated:

                    ... Based on the foregoing, the Military Collegium concludes that Beria, Merkulov, Kobulov and Goglidze were those leaders who organized at the state level and personally carried out mass repressions against his own people. And therefore, the Law “On the rehabilitation of victims of political repression” applies to them, as the perpetrators of terror, can not.


                    WHAT is again not clear ?!
                    1. +6
                      14 September 2018 07: 08
                      that is, those people who personally participated in the terror, after the death of Stalin rehabilitated their victims, at the same time they recognized Stalin as guilty in everything, and Beria was recognized as an Aglitsky spy, doesn’t resemble anything? !!!
                      1. -4
                        14 September 2018 08: 11
                        Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir
                        that is, those people who personally participated in the terror, after the death of Stalin, rehabilitated their victims,

                        What is wrong with the fact that they (although I do not justify them in any way) found the courage and acquitted the innocent, at least a little straightened the crippled lives of millions of people?
                        Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir
                        at the same time, Stalin was found guilty of everything

                        The absolute power of the leader (and it was unlimited by anyone and nothing) certainly implies a similar responsibility.
                        The repressions, which lasted until 1953 almost continuously, after this year, stopped (Rhodes does not count). Such a pattern ....
                        Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir
                        what does not remind? !!!

                        Nothing. What should be? request
        2. 0
          15 September 2018 20: 12
          Do you have case materials? What prompted the arrest and further execution?
    3. avt
      +7
      13 September 2018 07: 48
      Quote: AlexVas44
      I can not agree with the author, who is trying to reduce the number of repressed citizens, although there is still no specific figure.

      That is, specifically DO NOT KNOW ANYTHING, but can’t agree? ! fool What do you disagree with if you don’t know anything specifically? wassatEven if
      Quote: AlexVas44
      My grandfather was one of many innocently injured.
      the fate of the ancestor there is no desire to find out? Well, what exactly was he charged with. God knows what kind of difficulty - I sent a request, raised my ass from the computer and looked at a specific criminal case, like the same late artist Zhzhenov, and many others. If the case is not signed by the NKGB, there is no problem.
      Quote: AlexVas44
      In almost every area (region) there are books of memory in both electronic and paper forms.

      Only the compilers of these tablets, as a rule, "Memorial", are afraid to enter the declassified archive of the Gulag as devilishly incense. Here are all these svanid-earthed letters and in the summer of Solzhenitsyn's writing in the 90s, after the declassification of the archives, there are no documents in the forms for issuing documents! generally .
      1. -2
        13 September 2018 08: 20
        Quote: avt
        That is, specifically DO NOT KNOW ANYTHING, but can’t agree? !

        Yes, I don’t know specifically, and the word NOTHING is already yours. I don’t know, therefore, I can’t agree with Volgonov’s figure of 30 with a small thousand and with millions of Solzhenitsyn, ideologists of the USSR and with 700 thousand KGB. There is simply no single digit, even with large tolerances. Do you know?
        I know the fate of my ancestor, and he was rehabilitated not by Choch, by the grace of the state, but by the efforts of his father, after a long correspondence. (post above).
        1. +3
          13 September 2018 09: 12
          Quote: AlexVas44
          I can not agree with the author, who is trying to reduce the number of repressed citizens, although there is still no specific figure.

          Quote: AlexVas44
          Yes, I don’t know specifically, and the word NOTHING is already yours. I don’t know, therefore, I can’t agree with Volgonov’s figure of 30 with a small thousand and with millions of Solzhenitsyn, ideologists of the USSR and with 700 thousand KGB. There is simply no single digit, even with large tolerances.

          Those. on the one hand, do you think that "there is no single digit", and on the other you know for sure that the author is trying "reduce the number of repressed" ? Slightly smells like schizophrenia, don’t you? laughing
          1. +1
            13 September 2018 09: 26
            I do not find. I, like any other, I suppose - the truth is this word is missing here. I assume that the figure is underestimated, because a lot of different things have been published on this subject and I have my personal opinion, which I have expressed. Well, I’m not going to write an abstract here. But you, apparently, just bored, finding fault with words without argument, do not you? drinks And in general, I do not want to argue, already on Saturday I will be in the Mediterranean. good
            1. -4
              13 September 2018 10: 00
              Quote: AlexVas44
              But you, apparently, just bored, finding fault with words without argument, do not you?

              Don't be offended. Professional deformation. I noticed a "hole" in the logic, so I "poked" reflexively ... hi
              Quote: AlexVas44
              And in general, I do not want to argue, already on Saturday I will be in the Mediterranean.

              I envy white envy! drinks
          2. 0
            13 September 2018 09: 31
            Quote: HanTengri
            Those. on the one hand, do you think that "there is no single-digit figure", but on the other hand, do you know for sure that the author is trying to "belittle the number of repressed"? It smacks of schizophrenia, doesn't it?

            There is no schizophrenia. The author is trying to convince us that they say, "everyone is lying, the numbers of those who died during the years of repression are incorrect," while not providing any documentary justification for his position. The commentator said about this.
            1. 0
              13 September 2018 10: 04
              Quote: Lieutenant Teterin
              The author is trying to impress on us that

              Phew! Thrust this afftor into some GULAG thread, without the right to spray a stream of consciousness into the monitor! am
              1. +2
                13 September 2018 10: 17
                Quote: HanTengri
                Phew! Thrust this afftor into some GULAG thread, without the right to spray a stream of consciousness into the monitor!

                Why drop to the level of criminals who sent people to camps on far-fetched pretexts? It is easier and better to refute the author’s speculation with archival links in his hands and give him the opportunity to look like a liar.
                1. -3
                  13 September 2018 11: 50
                  Quote: Lieutenant Teterin
                  It is simpler and better to refute the author’s speculation with archival links in his hands and give him the opportunity to look like a liar.

                  Meaning? Samsonov is not a reader, Samsonov is a writer to him, for all our criticism, with all the archival links .... it’s deeply violet how he looks like a cheater or not.
                  1. -2
                    13 September 2018 12: 11
                    Quote: HanTengri
                    Meaning? Samsonov is not a reader, Samsonov is a writer to him, for all our criticism, with all the archival links .... it’s deeply violet how he looks like a cheater or not.

                    Not so much for him as for inexperienced readers, so that they do not trust his writings.
        2. avt
          +3
          13 September 2018 09: 30
          Quote: AlexVas44
          Participation in a counter-revolutionary organization. Terror intentions.

          Varlam Shalamov, a REALLY man, unlike Solzhenitsyn, who passed the circle of hell and survived by a miracle, sat as a Trotskyist. That is, in fact, as a real enemy of the current government. Against which he, again in his recollections, fought. The victim? By the way, the "labor armies" and slave labor proper are Trotsky's inventions.
          Quote: AlexVas44
          There is simply no single digit, even with large tolerances. Do you know?

          "Socialism is control and accounting" Ulyanov, party nickname-Lenin, whose brother was executed for an attempted assassination attempt by creating an IED. Mendeleev's intercession did not help. .But back to
          Quote: AlexVas44
          Do you know?
          Actually see earlier
          Quote: avt
          Only the compilers of these tablets, as a rule, "Memorial", are afraid to enter the declassified archive of the Gulag as devilishly incense. Here are all these svanid-earthed letters and in the summer of Solzhenitsyn's writing in the 90s, after the declassification of the archives, there are no documents in the forms for issuing documents! generally .
          According to the registration cards and reports, they were quite able to create a list of losses of the Red Army / SA in the Patriotic War. Naturally with tolerance. request BUT! NOBODY, especially from the “human rights activists”, does not even take to the brain to work in the same way in the archives on the topic of the notorious repression.
          Quote: AlexVas44
          he was rehabilitated not by Choch, by the grace of the state, but by the efforts of his father, after a long correspondence.

          bully With whom? Really with the same employees of the state and rehabilitated by this same state? Or some ... higher powers? wassat In the early 90's I had a chance to talk with one senior KGB officer. So things that really did not matter to the special services already in the 80s lay with them without any neck and yes
          Quote: AlexVas44
          after a long correspondence.

          it was possible to get access to a personal file, as well as to receive a certificate of rehabilitation. In the framework of the current political realities.
    4. 0
      23 May 2020 15: 44
      There is. See Zemskov. He published data from the archives of the OGPU-NKVD-MGB.
  4. +6
    13 September 2018 06: 06
    but not 60 million as according to Solzhenitsyn. he is still a saddener of the Russian land. Shalamov about his "One day in the life of Ivan Denisovich" said well "Well written, but where did they sit like that?"))) (I cannot vouch for the accuracy of the quote.
  5. 3vs
    -7
    13 September 2018 06: 17
    Did Solzhenitsyn “lie” about “100 millions of repressed”?
    https://tsargrad.tv/articles/vral-li-solzhenicyn-o-100-millionah-repressirovannyh_97537
    Excerpt:
    There is a widespread in neo-Stalinist circles meme "Solzhenitsyn's lies about 100 million repressed", which gradually transformed into "100 mulions shot personally by Stalin."

    Whenever they bring him to me, I ask you to quote from Solzhenitsyn, where he says something about it. But they cannot quote. More precisely they can, but completely different.

    “According to the estimates of the emigrating professor of statistics I. A. Kurganov, from 1917 to 1959 of the year without military losses, only from terrorist destruction, suppression, hunger, increased mortality in the camps and, including the deficit from low birth rates, it cost us ... 66,7 million people (without this deficit - 55 million).

    Sixty six million! Fifty five!

    A friend or a stranger - who is not numb?

    Of course, we do not vouch for the numbers of Professor Kurganov, but we do not have official figures. As soon as the official ones are printed, experts will be able to critically compare them. (Already now, several studies have appeared using the hidden and torn up Soviet statistics, but the terrible darkness of the ruined ones floats the same). ” (A. Solzhenitsyn. Gulag archipelago. Vol. 2; part 3; chap. 1)

    As you can see, in this case, Solzhenitsyn, with the proviso "we cannot vouch", refers to the article by I.A. Kurganov "Three Figures", in which a statistical and demographic assessment of the consequences of the red catastrophe was carried out. However, he talks about 55 or 65 million losses.

    That is, the phrase "100 of millions of repressed", in any case, is a lie, regardless of the reliability or unreliability of the number in 65. She invented by fighters with Solzhenitsyn.

    Where did this lie come from? It came about by distorting the meaning of Solzhenitsyn’s speech on Spanish television in 1976, when he was told the following.

    “From the end of the civil war, in fact, the regime’s war began against its people. In the West, twelve years ago, a statistical study of Russian professor Kurganov was published. Of course, no one will ever publish official statistics on how many died in our country from the internal war of the regime against the people. But professor Kurganov indirectly calculated that from 1917 to 1959, only from the internal war of the Soviet regime against his people, that is, from the destruction of his hunger, collectivization, exile of the peasants, prisons, camps, simple executions - only this 66 million people perished with our civil war. This figure is almost impossible to imagine. It can not be believed. Professor Kurganov gives another figure: how much we lost in World War II. This figure is also impossible to imagine. This war was fought without regard to divisions, corps, and millions of people. According to his calculations, we lost in the Second World War from the dismissive, sloppy conduct of 44 million people! So, we have lost everything from the socialist system - 110 million people! It is amazing that at the end of the last century, Dostoevsky predicted that socialism would cost Russia one hundred million people. ”

    As we see, “100 of millions” is not the words of Solzhenitsyn and Kurganov, but Dostoevsky.

    "... no matter how the world heals, you still cannot cure, and having cut off a hundred million heads radically and thus lightening yourself, you can more accurately jump over the groove ..." (F. M. Dostoevsky. Collected works, GIHL, Moscow, 1957. Volume 7. The novel "Demons", pp. 421-424).

    Claims for 100 million must be addressed to Fyodor Mikhailovich. Solzhenitsyn, with reference to Kurganov, has 66 + 44, that is, 110 million. But not the repressed, but the general demographic losses of the people of Russia for 1917-1959. Not those "shot by Stalin personally," as well as not shot at all, but a rough estimate of the total demographic losses.

    Perhaps this is generally a great scientific and historical work, which is waiting for its researchers honest and conscientious.
    1. +6
      13 September 2018 06: 59
      Quote: 3vs
      According to the calculations of the emigrating professor of statistics I. A. Kurganov, from 1917 to 1959 without military losses

      a direct example of juggling facts and turning upside down
      1. avt
        +6
        13 September 2018 07: 57
        Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir
        a direct example of juggling facts and turning upside down

        Well, for more than one decade, the sect "Solzhenitsystvuyuschie" to a specific question -Where did the scribe get the data in the summer?
        Quote: 3vs
        Of course, we do not vouch for the numbers of Professor Kurganov, but we do not have official figures.

        Quote: 3vs
        As we see, “100 of millions” is not the words of Solzhenitsyn and Kurganov, but Dostoevsky.
        Well and generally
        Quote: 3vs
        Claims for 100 million must be addressed to Fyodor Mikhailovich. Solzhenitsyn, with reference to Kurganov, has 66 + 44, that is, 110 million. But not the repressed, but the general demographic losses of the people of Russia for 1917-1959. Not those "shot by Stalin personally," as well as not shot at all, but a rough estimate of the total demographic losses.

        And if you do not agree with this
        The present intelligentsia is such a spiritual sect.
        What is characteristic: they don’t know anything, they don’t know anything, but they judge everything and completely disagree with dissent ...
        And you demand some specific facts, then you are at least a "neo-Stalinist" - to the stake!
        Quote: 3vs
        Perhaps this is generally a great scientific and historical work, which is waiting for its researchers honest and conscientious.
        Only this work should be carried out ... by someone else, and they will correct it in accordance with the "teachings" of the founder of the sect - Solzhenitsyn. bully
        1. +4
          13 September 2018 08: 57
          Quote: avt
          Well, not one decade, the sect "Solzhenitsystvuyuschie" on a specific question -Where did the scribe get the data from in the summer?

          it’s not even here that the victims of the famine of civil, white and red terror, epidemics, hunger and banditry were quietly put in one list and Stalin is personally guilty of everything
          1. +8
            13 September 2018 10: 40
            Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir
            it’s not even here that the victims of the famine of civil, white and red terror, epidemics, hunger and banditry were quietly put in one list and Stalin is personally guilty of everything

            This is not even the case here. The main feint with ears is that Koshkin (Kurganov) (Doctor of Economic Sciences, traitor, fascist henchman, Vlasov, member of the NTS and just an intelligent person ( lol )) recorded as victims of Soviet power all unborn babies who, theoretically, theoretically, Karl !!!, should have been born from 1917 to 1959, but not born.
            The revolution in Russia began with the uprising of 1917, then unfolded in the civil war, industrialization, collectivization and in the complete reorganization of society, which continues to this day. The people during this time suffered really heavy losses, especially in the initial period of the revolution and the period of Stalin’s dictatorship. Here are some numbers:

            a) The population of Russia in 1917 within the borders of September 17, 1939 was 143,5 million.

            b) The natural population growth for 1919-1939 should normally be 64,4 million.

            c) Mechanical population growth in 1940 due to the accession of new territories to the USSR 20,1 million

            d) Natural population growth in 1940 - 59 within modern borders, normally should be 91,5 million.

            e) Therefore, the total population within modern borders normally in 1959 should be 319,5 million.

            f) In reality, according to the 1959 census, there were 208,8 million

            g) The total population loss of 110,7 million.

            Thus, the population of the USSR lost in connection with the events of 1917-1959. one hundred and ten million human lives.
            I.A. Kurganov "Three figures" https://rusidea.org/32030
      2. 3vs
        -2
        13 September 2018 10: 24
        Well, where is the juggling of facts and turning upside down?
        Professor of Statistics I. A. Kurganov professional accountant.
        So he took the numbers that were available to him and counted on accounting,
        received terrible figures, and Solzhenitsyn referred to him, that's all.

        Egor Kholmogorov’s article is not too lazy to read:
        https://tsargrad.tv/articles/vral-li-solzhenicyn-o-100-millionah-repressirovannyh_97537
    2. +2
      13 September 2018 07: 53
      Klava treacherously didn't switch to i when you need Russian "and" to print? As for F.M. Dostoevsky, he was not against socialism as such (read about his "Russian socialism"), as can be understood from your statement. He grilled about striving for self-improvement, without which a kirdyk (nothing will come of it, even the best idea will not lead to building a good society).
      1. 3vs
        -3
        13 September 2018 10: 16
        No, dear sir, the letter i in the word mir is not treacherous, there is nothing Ukrainian here! wink
        “It is well known that two homonymous words, now spelled the same, differed in pre-revolutionary spelling: the spelling mir - s and (the so-called“ octal ”) conveyed a word meaning“ absence of quarrel, enmity, disagreement, war; harmony, harmony, unanimity, affection, friendship, goodwill; silence, peace, tranquility "(see the Explanatory Dictionary of V. I. Dal.) The spelling of mir - with i (" decimal ") corresponded to the meanings" universe, globe, human race. "

        For more details see: https://www.nkj.ru/archive/articles/4332/ (Science and Life, WHAT "WORLD" IS THE SPEAKING ABOUT IN "WAR AND PEACE"?) "
    3. +3
      13 September 2018 09: 30
      Quote: 3vs
      As you can see, in this case, Solzhenitsyn, with the proviso “we cannot vouch”, refers to the article by I.A. Kurganov "Three figures"

      Ivan A. Koshkin (Kurganov) (1.1.1895-16.9.1980) ...............
      ................... Since 1940 - Doctor of Economics. In total during the Soviet period he published over 60 works on accounting and about 10 books. According to contemporaries, his works were distinguished by simplicity and clarity of presentation, the connection of theory with practice, analysis of almost all the problems that existed in accounting at that time.

      In the spring of 1942, together with the institute, he was evacuated from Leningrad to Essentuki, was appointed acting director of the LFEI.

      In August 1942, before the German troops occupied Yessentuki, being anti-communist, he decided to stay in the city and cooperate with the occupation authorities. In December 1942, he left Essentuki with the retreating German troops. He got to Berlin, where he worked as a welder in a factory. He participated in the activities of the Vlasov movement as a member of the national council of the Committee for the Liberation of the Peoples of Russia (KONR).

      In 1945, he fled from the Soviet troops to the west, but was sent by the American authorities to the Soviet repatriation camp, from where he escaped; was again detained by the Americans, but this time was not issued.

      He lived in Germany, and since 1949 - in the USA, where he initially worked as a packer at a match factory. Under the new surname Kurganov (chosen in the 1950s in memory of his life in Kurgan), since 1951, he actively participated in the activities of the People's Labor Union, in 1957 he made a keynote speech at the Hague Congress “For Rights and Freedom in Russia ”, Was published in the magazines" Posev "," Grani "," New Journal "," Mosty "and other emigrant publications.

      https://rusidea.org/32030 По ссылке, кстати, та самая, статья "Три цифры".
      1. 3vs
        -2
        13 September 2018 10: 44
        And what is the relation to dry numbers?
        1. +5
          13 September 2018 11: 14
          Quote: 3vs
          And what is the relation to dry numbers?

          Are you sure that the numbers are dry? And in the calculation method there is not a single controversial point, what do you think? Wasn't the "Method of Exact Fitting" applied (dry numbers, for the necessary propaganda effect to make the UZHOS seem even more terrible)? Read Three Numbers, analyze ...
          1. 3vs
            -2
            13 September 2018 13: 00
            You can be completely sure only when opening the archives of that time, apparently
            until the "secret" label is removed from some materials, it is difficult to count on something objective from all sides.
            On the other hand, there were articles about the falsification of archival documents by KGB officers,
            in this case, the whole picture will be difficult to recover at all.
            1. +2
              13 September 2018 17: 33
              Quote: 3vs
              You can be completely sure only when opening the archives of that time, apparently

              Are you merging quietly? We are talking specifically about the article by I.A. Kurganov "Three Figures", i.e. about, let's say, the scientific validity of the method of obtaining these three numbers, without going beyond the scope of this article. And what does the archives have to do with it?
    4. BAI
      +7
      13 September 2018 10: 53
      Did Solzhenitsyn “lie” about “100 millions of repressed”?

      Of course, he lied.
      For the entire time of Stalin's rule, the total number of people who passed through the camps, if not taking into account foreign prisoners of war, is within 3 thousand. (convicted from 439 to 1921 - 1954 thousand people + 1752,5 thousand people + 1016,9 thousand people from military courts + 436,3 thousand former prisoners of war). 233,4 thousand people maximum!
      Even if we add 50% of those executed (but this is only in 1938, in all other years it is much less, for example, in 1936, 0,4% of those convicted (zero point, four tenths) were shot), then there’s still no talk about 100 million can not.
      1. +2
        14 September 2018 13: 22
        "The repressed" is not only a prisoner and a shot. Even dismissal from work for political reasons, not to mention dispossession, these are repressed
  6. 0
    13 September 2018 06: 25
    An empty article about anything .. The main thesis is all lies and slander ... Well, give real numbers ..

    But in fact, most of the prisoners were ordinary criminals: thieves, murderers, rapists, etc.

    So here it is ..
    1. -1
      13 September 2018 07: 21
      The author himself writes, if you count the deaths from inhuman conditions and slave labor in Stalin's concentration camps, it will be millions. Oh, yes, they "themselves" died, "wanted" and "died" - of their own accord, after all, it was not Stalin who personally shot them ..... time like, it was, as the author writes, "hard for the whole country "..... request And most importantly, there were only millions of them, and not tens and hundreds, just a couple of millions, you think, what garbage .... winked
      1. avt
        +5
        13 September 2018 08: 10
        Quote: Monster_Fat
        , what garbage ....

        In what? Here's exactly what?
        Quote: Monster_Fat
        The author himself writes, if you count the dead from inhuman conditions and slave labor in the Stalinist concentration camps, it will be millions.

        Maybe enough to carry the blizzard? There is, I even, "Olgovich" threw a link, where attempts to compare with mortality in Nazi camps and prisons in the pre-war period, so even this author gritted his teeth gave out - did not exceed. voi.Eto Az to what actually - it is necessary to juggle the deck more, more precisely. By the way! Here the topic of repression "of the present times is already raised!" Straight neo 37 years. Well, no one wants to compare the number of prisoners in the Russian Federation and the USA? And at the same time about the "slave labor of the ZK" ... talk in the USA?
        1. +2
          13 September 2018 09: 41
          Quote: avt
          In what? Here's exactly what?

          Yes, here it is:
          The number of deaths in labor camps fluctuates from year to year: from 5,2% - in 1934 (with 510 thousand prisoners in labor camps), 9,1% - in 1938 (996 thousand prisoners) to 0,3% (1,7 million prisoners ) in 1953 year. The highest numbers in the hardest years of the Great Patriotic War: 18% - 1942 year (by 1,4 million prisoners), 17% - in 1943 year (983 thousand). Further, there is a constant and large decline in mortality: from 9,2% in 1944 (663 thousand) to 3% - in 1946 (600 thousand) and 1% in 1950 (1,4 million). That is, as the war stopped and the material conditions of the country were adjusted, the death rate in places of detention sharply decreased.

          The author writes about mortality as an everyday matter. Well, you think, in 1938 9% of prisoners died (and this is about 100 thousand people), the usual thing! But it’s normal when the death rate of prisoners is at the level of America in the late 1880s! https://corporatelie.livejournal.com/18731.html
          And even more so, the Gulag was more humane than the terrible penal servitude of the tsarist satraps, where they so abused prisoners that even in a hungry year 3,4% of prisoners died! https://corporatelie.livejournal.com/67744.html
          1. avt
            +2
            13 September 2018 10: 16
            Quote: Lieutenant Teterin
            And even more so, the Gulag was more humane than the terrible penal servitude of the tsarist satraps, where they so abused prisoners that even in a hungry year 3,4% of prisoners died!

            Aya-ya-ya! But how is it? wassat How could you become like
            Quote: Lieutenant Teterin
            The author writes about mortality as an everyday matter.
            Think dead
            Quote: Lieutenant Teterin
            3,4% of prisoners
            Moreover, not in a terrible, "pitch-black" Red Empire, but in a naturally God-bearing kingdom. wassat
            Quote: Lieutenant Teterin
            Where, tell me, where could the impoverished Poland have funds to support 100000 agents ?!

            Of course not, no doubt about it. However, if you dig a little deeper and without wringing your hands in exaltation, including the police officers who were shot in Katyn and "dvuyki", then a not so stupid picture will emerge, well, where is the "bloody tyrant" getting up in the morning thinking - Who else to shoot today? The seeker will find out what was at that time in Lyakhistan, the "Promethean movement", and most importantly - to what extent, if Hitler, having received the lists of agents, still rejoiced. The USSR fought for its existence completely without compromises and worked against him, too, were not fools pedal and completely And taking into account the realities of the time and the devalued human life by the continuous war since 1914 (into which Russia was driven by Nikolashka "Bloody"), they were beating, no matter how cynical it sounds, in the squares. "As after and with the Crimeans, Chechens, And after some excesses near Odessa and the Volga Germans. They completely knocked out the base of the possibility of supporting the militants. Cruel? Yes. I justify? No. BUT - what alternative was in the conditions of that time and those realities, all in aggregate? Intellectual humanism today at the computer with a warm toilet nearby, do not offer.
            1. 0
              13 September 2018 10: 26
              Quote: avt
              Aya-ya-ya! But how is it? How could you become like
              Quote: Lieutenant Teterin
              The author writes about mortality as an everyday matter. Think dead
              Quote: Lieutenant Teterin
              3,4% of prisoners Yes, and not in a terrible, "pitch-black" Red Empire, but in a naturally God-bearing kingdom.

              Tell me, do you always gnaw and arrange clowning when you are given studies based on archival documents?
              Quote: avt
              The seeker will find out what was the “Promethean Movement” in Lyakhistan at that time, and most importantly - to what extent, if Hitler, having received the list of agents, still rejoiced.

              Please, follow the link that I gave above. There is information on the number of Polish agents. From the Polish archives.

              Quote: avt
              And taking into account the realities of the time and the devalued human life by the continuous war since 1914 (into which Russia was driven by Nikolashka "Bloody"), they were beating, no matter how cynical it sounds, "over the squares"

              Ah-ah ... "We are not like that, we are like that" - sounds like an excuse for a criminal being interrogated by an investigator. "Continuous war" was the result of the activities of the Bolsheviks, who first unleashed a civil war, and then implanted the psychology of a "besieged fortress" in society. And even before the war and the mention of the name of the All-Russian Emperor ... But when will you already learn a simple fact - in 1914, Germany and Austria-Hungary declared war on Russia. The emperor did not "drive" anyone anywhere. Russia was subjected to foreign aggression. It is a fact.
              1. 0
                13 September 2018 10: 40
                Quote: Lieutenant Teterin
                But when will you already learn a simple fact - in 1914, Germany and Austria-Hungary declared war on Russia. The emperor did not "drive" anyone anywhere. Russia was subjected to foreign aggression. It is a fact.

                This happened in 41 without a declaration of war and everything else. But you explain why your "All-Russian" announced mobilization before the declaration of war, if you were not going to fight?
                1. 0
                  13 September 2018 10: 44
                  Quote: merlin
                  But you explain why your "All-Russian" announced mobilization before the declaration of war, if you were not going to fight?

                  Not yours, but ours. A mobilization was announced in response to the mobilization activities of Austria-Hungary. Or do you think that looking at the Austrian mobilization, the Emperor should have left Russia defenseless?
                  1. +2
                    13 September 2018 11: 26
                    Quote: Lieutenant Teterin
                    Not yours, but ours.

                    So I write - yours.
                    Quote: Lieutenant Teterin
                    A mobilization was announced in response to the mobilization activities of Austria-Hungary.

                    Let's understand why mobilization was announced in Austria-Hungary? How do you explain the fact that universal mobilization in Austria-Hungary was announced as a response to universal mobilization in the Republic of Ingushetia?
                    Quote: Lieutenant Teterin
                    Or do you think that looking at the Austrian mobilization, the Emperor should have left Russia defenseless?

                    How did partial Austrian mobilization threaten RI?
                    If threatened, then what was dragged for a whole week?
                    Lieutenant, maybe you don’t have to juggle and just accept the fact that RI harnessed for little brothers? And yes, that this was just an excuse to chop the straits to the sly?
                    1. +2
                      13 September 2018 12: 10
                      Quote: merlin
                      So I write - yours.

                      For all Russian people, the All-Russian Emperor is ours. Like Russia, our homeland.

                      Quote: merlin
                      Let's understand why mobilization was announced in Austria-Hungary? How do you explain the fact that universal mobilization in Austria-Hungary was announced as a response to universal mobilization in the Republic of Ingushetia?

                      You, as I see, do not understand the history of the beginning of the WWII at all. On the 25th, Germany begins unofficial mobilization. On July 26, partial mobilization began in Austria-Hungary. On July 28, Austrian artillery fired on Belgrade. Russia is the official ally of Serbia. Naturally, the hostile actions of Austria-Hungary forced Russia to begin partial mobilization. On the 29th, Germany threatens Russia. And only after that Russia announces a general mobilization. https://eadaily.com/en/news/2016/07/28/etot-den-v-istorii-28-iyulya-1914-goda-nachalas-pervaya-mirovaya-voyna
                      Quote: merlin
                      How did partial Austrian mobilization threaten RI?

                      So that Austria, having begun the barbaric shelling of Belgrade, the war with Serbia could easily attack Russia. And this is not my speculation, the same Germany, attacking France at the same time declared war on Russia. Just like that, on the fact of allied relations.

                      Quote: merlin
                      If threatened, then what was dragged for a whole week?
                      Lieutenant, maybe you don’t have to juggle and just accept the fact that RI harnessed for little brothers? And yes, that this was just an excuse to chop the straits to the sly?

                      Nobody pulled for a week, I wrote you about this above. And about "harnessed" ... in 1940 the USSR did not "harness" for France and it ended on June 22, 1941.
                      1. +1
                        13 September 2018 13: 10
                        Quote: Lieutenant Teterin
                        Quote: merlin
                        So I write - yours.

                        For all Russian people, the All-Russian Emperor is ours.

                        Yes it is yours, yours - no one argues.
                        Although, I must note that this proposal of yours smacks of some kind of nationalism. Let’s say, for the Buryats from Buryatia in 1914. Nicholas was not an emperor?
                        Quote: Lieutenant Teterin
                        On the 25th, Germany begins unofficial mobilization.

                        Come on? What is your evidence?
                        Quote: Lieutenant Teterin
                        https://eadaily.com/ru/news/2016/07/28/etot-den-v-istorii-28-iyulya-1914-goda-nachalas-pervaya-mirovaya-voyna

                        Ah, here they are ... an article in which there is not even an author? Is this your only source of information?
                        Quote: Lieutenant Teterin
                        So that Austria, having begun the barbaric shelling of Belgrade, the war with Serbia could easily attack Russia.

                        Why would you? In Austria-Hungary, and not in Austria, units were mobilized for the war with Serbia. And yes, you don’t know the story, because On the 29th, no one announced partial mobilization in the Republic of Ingushetia.
                        Quote: Lieutenant Teterin
                        Nobody pulled the week, I wrote to you about this above.

                        The Serbs were promised a partial mobilization of the 24th, and they announced a general mobilization of 31. Of course they didn’t delay it - it worked very quickly ...
                        Quote: Lieutenant Teterin
                        And about "harnessed" ... in 1940 the USSR did not "harness" for France and it ended on June 22, 1941.

                        And in the 38th France threw Czechoslovakia, how did this end for France? But, for example, in 1799 we harnessed for the Austrians, and what did this lead to?
                        In general, it’s good that you don’t deny the fact that you are "harnessed".
                  2. +1
                    13 September 2018 11: 53
                    Mobilization was announced simply out of necessity. There are a lot of documents and the primary sources of peacekeeping Nicholas II. Moreover, these are the primary sources and their authenticity has never been questioned. Those interested can read the official correspondence of Nicholas II with the Russian ambassador in Bulgaria for a start. The mobilization should have been carried out immediately since the tripartite alliance would have dealt with France without any problems, after which it would have been Russia’s turn and in completely different negative conditions! Mobilization in the Russian Empire is not a quick process! You know the distances, the roads and planes did not throw troops back then! Generally speaking, it’s a shame to read about the mobilization of some figures compared here with Russian aggression and the outbreak of war! And who cares about our mobilization in our territory ?! Tell me what is the occasion ?! I’m interested in people who think so probably now for the Baltic states and the British and the Poles are very nervous ?! They also scream like victims of Russian aggression, as soon as our plane flies nearby, I’m silent about the exercises ... Why do such comrades double standards ?! Stalin also tolerated - tolerated, did not believe - did not believe, and then the Germans were stopped near Moscow and Leningrad was in blockade until January 27, 1944 if anyone forgot! Surely something like this happened with St. Petersburg in World War I ?! No need to juggle the guys.
                    1. +2
                      13 September 2018 12: 11
                      Quote: Oper
                      No need to juggle the guys.

                      That's it!!!
                      Quote: Oper
                      Mobilization was announced simply out of necessity.

                      I asked about this need: what was this need for?
                      Quote: Oper
                      There are many documents with the primary sources of peacekeeping of Nicholas II.

                      Namely, what I wrote: fit in with the little brothers.
                      Quote: Oper
                      The mobilization should have been carried out immediately since the tripartite alliance would have dealt with France without any problems, after which it would have been Russia’s turn and in completely different negative conditions!

                      So what were you waiting for? Why haven’t the mobilization been announced yet on the 26th?
                      Quote: Oper
                      And who cares about our mobilization in our territory ?!

                      And who cares about the showdown between Austria-Hungary and Serbia?
                      Quote: Oper
                      Tell me what is the occasion ?! I’m interested in people who think so probably now for the Baltic states and the British and the Poles are very nervous ?!

                      "No need guys to juggle" - who wrote this?
                      Quote: Oper
                      Stalin also tolerated - tolerated, did not believe - did not believe, and then the Germans were stopped near Moscow and Leningrad was in blockade until January 27, 1944 if anyone forgot!

                      Well, again - "No need to juggle the guys." !!!
                      The Wehrmacht was completely mobilized. And when did the mobilization in the Reichsheer begin?
                      1. 0
                        13 September 2018 13: 23
                        And why did you comment on everything in such detail ?! Mobilization, mobilization ... i.e. Nicholas II, if he had not mobilized, then there would have been no war ?! But Stalin did well, that he sat quietly and sat down, and then the Germans and I butted around Moscow ?! Oh yeah, I forgot - he also ordered by 270 who was to blame for this - cowards and alarmists from the Red Army commanders and Red Army men who, in some way incomprehensible to Stalin, were already surrounded and captured by millions of living and dead already! Of course they are to blame. Could Stalin ever make a mistake ?!
                      2. +2
                        13 September 2018 14: 07
                        Quote: Oper
                        And why did you comment on everything in such detail ?!

                        To make you less tempted to start juggling something, apparently in vain ...
                        Quote: Oper
                        Those. Nicholas II, if he had not mobilized, then there would have been no war ?!

                        You know, it could not have been. At least in 1914 ...
                        Quote: Oper
                        But Stalin did well, that he sat quietly and sat down, and then the Germans and I butted around Moscow ?!

                        Stalin is really well done - he took the country with a plow, and left it with a nuclear bomb. And he did not sit quietly, but prepared the country for war: in fact, the entire military-industrial complex was created in 10-12 years from 1929. Isn't that great? Yes, the price was paid big and there were repressions, but otherwise we would all be serving some kind of burgher now ... Or are you one of those who regrets for Bavarian beer and German sausages?
                        Quote: Oper
                        Oh yeah, I forgot - he also ordered by 270 who was to blame for this - cowards and alarmists from the Red Army commanders and Red Army men who, in some way incomprehensible to Stalin, were already surrounded and captured by millions of living and dead already! Of course they are to blame.

                        The miscalculations of Stalin and the country's leadership cannot be an excuse for unprofessional actions, alarmism and desertion to the commanders and fighters of the Red Army, especially commanders.
                        Quote: Oper
                        Could Stalin ever make a mistake ?!

                        Calm down, comrade Stalin was mistaken, about a couple of times, i.e. many times less than Nikolashka.
                2. -1
                  13 September 2018 14: 22
                  Quote: merlin
                  But you explain why your "All-Russian" announced mobilization before the declaration of war

                  That there was no June 22. For huge A-Hungary ALREADY concentrated forces on the border with Russia. Against her was mobilization, which Germany was warned about.

                  Mobilization is not war.

                  PS If someone thinks that decision on world (!) war taken by the aggressor spontaneously, in ONE DAY lol and because of some kind of ferdinand or mobilization (which will be TEN times slower than the German one), he needs to urgently run to school: read at least about Schlieffen’s plan, and at the same time German politicians of that time. Germany literally RAPPED A-Hungary to start, despite any concessions to the Serbs.
                  1. +1
                    13 September 2018 15: 52
                    Quote: Olgovich
                    That there was no June 22.

                    Have you been mobilized to cancel the calendar day? Yeahhh - that’s strong ...
                    Quote: Olgovich
                    For huge A-Hungary ALREADY concentrated forces on the border with Russia. Against her was mobilization, which Germany was warned about.

                    How many times is "huge A-Hungary" smaller than RI?
                    Universal mobilization in Austria-Hungary began after the announcement of the general mobilization of the Republic of Ingushetia. Do not invent historical facts; there was no concentration of forces on the border.
                    Quote: Olgovich
                    Mobilization is not war.

                    But he is clearly talking about the final preparations and the start of hostilities - well, who in their right mind will start throwing millions out for mobilization and will not start wars at the same time?
                    Quote: Olgovich
                    Germany literally RAPPED A-Hungary to start, despite any concessions to the Serbs.

                    Wow!!! Where is there any evidence of this?
                    Rather, Serbia got Austria-Hungary so hard by its terrorists that the murder of the Archduke was simply the last straw.
                    Quote: Olgovich
                    If someone thinks that decision on world (!) war taken by the aggressor spontaneously, in ONE DAY lol and because of some kind of ferdinand or mobilization (which will be TEN times slower than the German one), he needs to urgently run to school: read at least about Schlieffen’s plan, and at the same time German politicians of that time.

                    It's funny, but Wilhelm II on the evening of August 1 gave the order to cancel the implementation of the Schlieffen plan, but it was too late ... as he wrote in a telegram to George V "for technical reasons."
                    PS Do not rewrite history, better teach it.
                    1. -1
                      14 September 2018 09: 05
                      Quote: merlin
                      Have you been mobilized to cancel the calendar day? Yeahhh - that’s strong ...

                      Yes, it would be canceled, but, alas, it is impossible to return. The Russian leadership turned out to be much smarter than the Soviet one and did not allow this catastrophe.
                      Quote: merlin
                      How many times is "huge A-Hungary" smaller than RI?

                      A look at the textbook, too lazy?
                      "By herself, by herself!" Yes
                      Quote: merlin
                      Universal mobilization in Austria-Hungary began after the announcement of the general mobilization of the Republic of Ingushetia. Do not invent historical facts; there was no concentration of forces on the border.

                      The beginning of general mobilization (partial mobilization) of A-Hungary and the WAR near the borders of Russia occurred on the 26th and 28th, respectively. A-Hungary concentrated forces on the border with Russia, which FIRST and invaded the territory of Russia and occupied the cities of Mekhov and Wodzislaw on the day of the declaration of war on Russia on August 6. Learn the FACTS.
                      Mobilization under these conditions is a forced measure.
                      Quote: merlin
                      There was no concentration of forces on the border.

                      Quote: merlin
                      But he is clearly talking about the final preparations and the start of hostilities - well, who in their right mind will start throwing millions out for mobilization and will not start wars at the same time?

                      Exactly this: seeing the aggressor’s final preparation for war (and Germany was ready and was eager to fight as early as 1908 in the same conflict between A-Hungary and Serbia), the HEALTHY mind prompts this, What does the other mind do (without conducting mobilization against the warring mobilized army) -history ochchchen very well showed on June 22
                      Quote: merlin
                      Wow!!! Where is there any evidence of this?
                      Rather, Serbia is so got Austria-Hungary by their terrorists, that the murder of the Archduke simply became the last straw.

                      Those. because of a couple of terrorists began ... WORLD WAR ?! belay fool lol
                      Yes, you are funnier than I thought. laughing
                      Goodbye, dear man!
                      At this level, communicate in a kindergarten, but I’m not going to teach you history ... hi
                      1. +2
                        14 September 2018 09: 25
                        Yes, Austria-Hungary was so focused, so concentrated that it did not have time to concentrate and had to transfer the 2 army from Serbia.
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        Goodbye, dear man!

                        Well, since you merged, then all the best to you! Further success in rewriting history. I am sure the next time you will succeed better.


                        PS Mekhov and Wodzislaw were occupied by 9, and not 6 of September. Although, I understand you - it is not difficult to mix up the numbers.
                    2. -1
                      14 September 2018 12: 47
                      Quote: merlin
                      Yes, Austria-Hungary was so focused, so concentrated that it did not have time to concentrate and had to transfer the 2 army from Serbia.

                      WHEN was it transferred, dear man? And before the transfer of the 2nd army, the Austrian troops, was it not concentrated against Russia? fool If you read books, you would be surprised to learn about the presence of armies and groups: 1st, 3rd, 4th and military groups.
                      FIRST attacked Russia
                      Quote: merlin
                      Well, since you merged,

                      Is it really hard to speak Russian? request You at least try ... Yes
                      Quote: merlin
                      Further success in rewriting history. I am sure the next time you will succeed better.

                      Why this delirium? request
                      Quote: merlin
                      Mekhov and Wodzislaw were busy on September 9th, not September 6th.

                      Maladets! good lol
                3. 0
                  14 September 2018 13: 25
                  Quote: merlin
                  It happened in the 41st without declaring war


                  In the 41st war declared
              2. avt
                +1
                13 September 2018 19: 39
                Quote: Lieutenant Teterin
                Tell me, do you always gnaw and clown

                Like
                Quote: Lieutenant Teterin
                Ah-ah-ah ... "We are not like that, we are like that" - sounds like an excuse for a criminal being questioned by an investigator.

                When the facts, in aggregate and in time across the coat?
                Quote: Lieutenant Teterin
                "Continuous war" was a consequence of the activities

                The mediocre owner of the Russian land "-Nikolashka" Krovavy ", who stupidly could not control his camarilla, which eventually overthrew him, throwing the country into a revolution. Unlike the really tough and even cruel Stalin.
                Quote: Lieutenant Teterin
                This is a fact.
                And there’s nothing here to depict Christ the unctuous with cheap excuses
                Quote: Lieutenant Teterin
                in 1914, Germany and Austria-Hungary declared war on Russia.

                Type
                Quote: Lieutenant Teterin
                “We’re not like that, we’re like that,” sounds like an excuse for a criminal being questioned by an investigator.
                So your subject of adoration is Nikolashka
                He just had to deal with his women on time and not to throw guns anywhere.
          2. +3
            13 September 2018 17: 49
            Quote: Lieutenant Teterin
            The author writes about mortality as an everyday matter.

            The lieutenant, numbers and their analysis - a thing very far from emotions. Those. we either consider the numbers or hysterical hysteria! It is possible and so - at first we consider, and then we hysteria. Choose what you like best. But at the same time, both two - neither will succeed.
        2. +2
          13 September 2018 10: 06
          Mortality in the Stalinist camps in peacetime was at the level of Nazi camps in wartime.
          What is there to argue about?
          1. BAI
            +3
            13 September 2018 17: 13
            Mortality in Stalin's camps in peacetime was at the level of Nazi wartime camps.


            And where does the data come from?
            Now, based on the data in the table above, we will try to calculate total mortality in Nazi labor camps over their entire existence. We will get the maximum mortality rate if we take the minimum number of people who went through the camps and the maximum estimate of the death toll. This percentage will be 44,97% (733244/1630479 * 100%). If we take the minimum estimate of the dead and the maximum number of past, then the percentage will be 35,52% (644244/1814000 * 100). If we take the maximum and minimum indicators, respectively, then the percentages will be equal to 40% (40,42% for the maximum indicators and 39,52% at the minimum) This coincides with the data of the British researcher R. Overy 7).

            The total number passed through the "Stalinist" camps is estimated at 9,5 million people8). The total number of deaths from 1930 to 1953 is 1590378 people, or 16,74%9)


            16,74% - never 35,52%

            The only time when the death rate in the camps increased sharply was 1942 and 1943.




            Nevertheless, even in these years, mortality was lower than in German camps.
            But then, as we see - the percentage of mortality, especially in PEACE TIME - is insignificant.
            1. -1
              13 September 2018 20: 37
              and the military campaign of 1941-1945), when mortality rises markedly, mortality drops to the level of 6-9% (depending on the calculation). // So you can compare the 1930s, before the start of WWII so that the camps and those and these military conditions did not distort.
              Data on Buchenwald from Nazi Conspiracy and Aggression, US Government Printing Office, Washington, DC, 1946-1948. Vol. 4. P. 800–835.
              Data on Sazlag for the 1931-30 Civil Aviation Administration of the Russian Federation, f. 9414, op. First published by Zemskov, the rest from Nakonechny.
              It can be assumed that the inhabitants of the USSR and lived outside lived poorly and for a short time, but statistics here also interfere - see the third illustration.
              In 1938-39, the number of able-bodied prisoners from 20 to 40 years old was 70%
              Table 8.5. http://rybakovsky.ru/demografia5a10.html
              From there:
              "In the gulag camps, on average, during 1937-1939, the share of disabled people was less than 0.05%"
            2. -1
              13 September 2018 21: 49


              Photos on mortality statistics of the 1930s. (without any war) in Buchenwald and Sahlag
      2. BAI
        +1
        13 September 2018 10: 59
        Oh, yes, they "themselves" died, "wanted" and "died" - of their own accord, after all, it was not Stalin who personally shot them ..... time like, it was, as the author writes, "hard for the whole country "


        Source: S. Valyansky and D. Kalyuzhny, “Roller Coaster: The End of the Russian State” book, page 197 (LLC AST Publishing House, Astrel Publishing House LLC, Transitkniga LLC, M. 2004). Further text from the above book p. 196-198. Quote: “By 1940, the Gulag consisted of 53 camps, 475 itk, with a total number of prisoners of over 1 thousand. (Approximately 660 people are prisoners per 8,5 population. Text in italics by approx. Author) In fairness, I must say, a lot of people got there for the job. By the way, today there are about a million prisoners in Russia, despite the rather frequent amnesties and the more sparing Criminal Code. There is something to think about. (In 1, the number of prisoners in the Russian Federation was about 000 thousand. For 2006 people this will be 880 thousand / 1 thousand = 000 people in prison. Statistically, the Russian Federation is not much different from the "totalitarian" USSR. The death penalty in The Russian Federation is no longer there, but it’s true that we die like flies. Author's note.)
        1. 0
          13 September 2018 20: 43
          In addition to the Gulag, there were also prisons - the same Zemskov indicates them in his work as separate institutions. In 1940, 200-400 people were imprisoned.http: //scepsis.net/library/id_000.html
          Plus, in the USSR there was an exile in the Russian Federation, exiles and special settlers were limited in their rights no worse than conditionally sentenced people now.
    2. avt
      +3
      13 September 2018 08: 01
      Quote: tasha
      An empty article about anything .. The main thesis is all lies and slander ... Well, give real numbers.

      bully That is, in the current article looked letters? There were no numbers wa-a-abche? bully
      1. 0
        13 September 2018 08: 05
        Watched. Poke your nose. The total number of repressed in the USSR = .... people ...
  7. +7
    13 September 2018 06: 59
    Not who they like to shout ... I am repressed, I went under Article 58 ... only this article had the interpretation of "Crimes against the State", and there are robbers, bribe-takers. spies and saboteurs, traitors ... only one of the sub-items was political for dissidents. Let's not forget that during that period not only criminals and political prisoners, but also resettled peoples - Germans, Chechens, Kolmyks, Tatars, were considered prisoners.
    1. +3
      13 September 2018 09: 47
      Quote: Strashila
      "Crimes against the state", and there robbers, bribe-takers. spies and saboteurs, traitors ...

      Yeah. Especially "thorns". When there were 10 people for one real spy, from whom the confession was knocked out.
      Let me remind you that according to the Central Asia FSB (published by Khaustov-Mozokhin), in 1937-1938, 102 thousand Polish intelligence officers and spies were arrested in the USSR, including in the DCK, remote villages of the Novosibirsk region, strategically important for the Poles of Buryatia and various other taiga points of the USSR. The spies often turned out to be illiterate peasant women, saddlers of factories, locksmiths, postmen, workers, drivers, etc. Spies were arrested, as a rule, in the framework of the so-called linear "Polish operation" of the NKVD.
      https://corporatelie.livejournal.com/46830.html
      Where, tell me where the poor Poland could have funds for maintenance 100000 agents ?! They never existed, and the Polish intelligence officers themselves wrote about difficulties in recruiting agents in the USSR. But the "valiant defenders" from the NKVD did not care about this, as well as about logic. Beautiful numbers are more important.
      The same is with saboteurs - in the 30s they liked to call common mistakes in production caused by the low technical culture of workers as "sabotage". But for the blockhead in the raspberry cap, in the vast majority of cases, there was no difference between error and deliberate sabotage.
      1. BAI
        +4
        13 September 2018 11: 33
        But for the blockhead in the raspberry cap, in the vast majority of cases there was no difference between a mistake and deliberate sabotage.

        Well, yes, absolutely no.

        By the way, we see that 16000 people were sitting for espionage.
        Where, tell me where the poor Poland could have funds for maintenance 100000 agents ?!

        Where are the remaining 84000 Polish agents? And what, agents of other countries were not?
        1. 0
          13 September 2018 12: 19
          Please read the article that I cited initially. There it is about 100 thousand arrested... And in order to arrest so many people in a crowd, you really need to be a blockhead. Without evidence, without investigation, it is banal to seize, and only then think about whether there are too many arrested ... And then, read the interrogation protocols, how the facts of espionage were "proved":
          FROM THE PROTOCOL OF THE INTERROGATION OF KOBYLYANSKY K.G. JULY 19, 1939
          After my arrest, which was made by Raeder, in the premises of the Regional Committee, I was immediately sent to the NKVD Regional Office in room 40 to Raeder. [...] The interrogation lasted approximately 1,5 - 2 hours and I was sent to a cell. Shirin told me that I was a Pole, and sending to the cell he added: “Go think you are a Pole”, when I told him that I was Ukrainian, then Shirin shouted “nationalist, pray to God” and demanded that I pray. But since I don’t know how to pray, Shirin began to make me sing. Meanwhile, Raeder came up to me, stepping on my socks with his feet [...] Shirin and Raeder told me to take into account that whoever gets here doesn’t come back and suggested that I choose either death or testimony which they need [...]

          On the same day in the evening, I was called again for interrogation to Shirin and Raeder, they were together. They demanded to testify about my kr. activities. During the interrogation, Shirin came up to me and punched me in the face, I fell off the chair. At his order, I got up and sat back in a chair and Shirin then struck me with 3-4 fists in the face [...] In the course of the investigation in my case, Shirin beat me 2 more times, I don’t remember the exact number. Shirin beat me in the back of the head with his fist, threw me from a chair, etc., put me on the corner of a chair and threw me from the chair with blows. [...] I could not bear this pain and told Shirin that I would write everything that they would require.

          GA SBU. - Ref. 47806-FP. - T. 1. - Ark. 78.
          Typescript. Certified copy.
          https://corporatelie.livejournal.com/46830.html
          Where is the consequence? Fact finding? This is a stupid knockout testimony from a man, because the brawler it seemedthat person is a Pole. Forgive me, but they don't catch spies like that. You read how the KGB of the same Penkovsky exposed - this is a real example of real counterintelligence.
          1. BAI
            +3
            13 September 2018 14: 17
            Please read the article that I cited initially.

            I read:
            1937-1938 in the USSR was arrested 102 thousand Polish spies and spies

            Yes, I underestimated the number. Corrected:
            Where are 86000 (and not 84000) Polish agents?

            Returning to the "blockhead".
            Was written 2 - 4 million denunciations. In total, 3777380 people were repressed according to the certificate provided to Khrushchev. Those. if we take the upper number of denunciations, there are more denunciations than repressed ones. Even if we count the number of denunciations - 2 million, then taking into account the independent work of the NKVD - not all denunciations were given a go, i.e. "blockheads" carried out filtration and defended slandered people.

            In response to your quotes - please:
            In 1995, on the 50th anniversary of the Victory, Radio Liberty prepared a series of programs based on the recollections of eyewitnesses of the Great War. One of the programs was devoted to the theme of love in war. The memories of a woman of Jewish nationality were heard. In 1941, she was an artist of the Kiev theater. In September 1941, the Germans captured Kiev, the theater and artists did not have time to evacuate. In addition to her, the theater had eight more people of Jewish nationality. A new director was appointed to the theater - a retired German officer. The theater began to be used for cultural work among the local population and German troops. The bitchy artistic fraternity immediately began to write denunciations and complaints to the new director about each other. They did not even hesitate to indicate which of them is Jewish or Jewish and is the hidden enemy of the German Reich. The German director did not give these clues (they were later found by security officials in the director’s papers) and all theater Jews and non-Jews survived the war years safely. The theater, together with the retreating German troops, reached Budapest and was liberated there by the Red Army. After checking the theater continued to work, but for the Soviet troops. The director of the theater again appointed our German. Apparently, in the Soviet military counterintelligence, the Smersh decided that if he had controlled all this pack for so many years, he would continue to be in his place. The theater continued to work for the Soviet troops until the summer of 1946. Then the German went home to Germany, and the savages saved by him returned to the USSR.
            1. -1
              13 September 2018 15: 32
              Quote: BAI
              Where are 86000 (and not 84000) Polish agents?

              Of course, they were released. But, I repeat, you need to be a splinter to grab your fellow citizens in tens of thousands indiscriminately, based only on denunciations.
            2. -2
              14 September 2018 07: 04
              Denunciations may not be given to everyone, but only one denunciation could have planted and shot a dozen people.
        2. 0
          14 September 2018 13: 29
          Quote: BAI
          Where are the remaining 84000 Polish agents?


          Shot for 2-3 years until April 1, 1940
    2. +2
      14 September 2018 12: 12
      Germans, Chechens, Kalmyks, Crimean Tatars (this is the name of this people, they are very different from the Tatars) and representatives of other resettled peoples were not prisoners, except for those who were sent to the camps. Communists from among the representatives of these peoples retained party membership. In places of special settlement, party-Soviet activists held positions in party-Soviet structures at the grassroots and district levels. All special settlers had voting rights in the elections to the Soviets. And some trusted comrades held positions in military commissariats, district party committees and outside the territories in which their fellow tribesmen lived. And Koreans who were evicted from the Far East in the late 30s did not have any particular restrictions at all. Among them were order bearers, Hero of Socialist Labor, collective farm heads and state farm directors, party and Soviet workers.
      1. 0
        14 September 2018 13: 31
        Well, just what benefactors! "But he could have slashed with a knife" (c)
  8. +4
    13 September 2018 07: 01
    "As the figures from the archives show," - but I thought that the author would provide links to documents. And so that "they" show, alas, is not checked. On the GARF website there are also photocopies of documents and they could be supplemented with the material. So far, it is very lightweight and not serious. Here, after all, not all people are from the "plow", they want a more perfect evidence base. And it would not hurt our enemies either. Highlighting "bold" adults does not convince of anything!
    1. -2
      13 September 2018 09: 48
      Quote: kalibr
      but I thought that the author will provide links to documents.

      He will never bring them. Because these links will shatter most of his conclusions.
    2. 0
      13 September 2018 11: 39
      Quote: kalibr
      +6
      "As the figures from the archives show," - but I thought that the author would provide links to documents.

      Samsonov and links to documents ?! laughing You are naive, Vyacheslav Olegovich! This is from the field of unscientific fiction.
      1. 0
        13 September 2018 12: 06
        No, but in my opinion, it is obvious that a topic of increased interest should not be at the blah blah level, but reasoned in a serious way, with photocopies of documents from the GARF, even at least with a photocopy of a page from the SCHOOL TEXTBOOK, and not one - they say, that's what they teach children! Why? Show and illustrate. The same materials as this "article", in my opinion, harm the cause of a correct understanding of the history of the past more than outright lies ...
        1. +1
          14 September 2018 18: 51
          Quote: kalibr
          No, but in my opinion it is obvious that the topic that causes increased interest should not be at the blah blah level

          Naturally! But, then, Samsonov should not write about her.
  9. +1
    13 September 2018 07: 12
    Quote: tasha
    An empty article about anything .. The main thesis is all lies and slander ... Well, give real numbers ..

    But in fact, most of the prisoners were ordinary criminals: thieves, murderers, rapists, etc.

    So here it is ..

    And the numbers with links to documents? And how many rapists, murderers were there ... Or did the rapists also walk along the 58?
    1. 0
      13 September 2018 07: 26
      The author of the article does not know the numbers real or reliable by his, the author’s opinion, even if he doesn’t write then ..

      Here, some people claim that 5 + 5 = 14, and so that's all - a lie, because 2 + 7 = 9 and there is a number 11 between 13 and 12 ...
  10. +2
    13 September 2018 07: 16
    Quote: 3vs
    Perhaps this is generally a great scientific and historical work, which is waiting for its researchers honest and conscientious.

    Are you laughing? The number of personal files of soldiers and commanders of the Red Army for specific crimes has not yet been declassified. The first were 500000, and the second 80. But for what exactly they "got" - you cannot find out! Everything is "but it is forbidden." Until 000! And there are many such "secrets" How to work?
    1. +2
      13 September 2018 08: 16
      Quote: kalibr
      The number of personal files of soldiers and commanders of the Red Army for specific crimes has not yet been declassified. The first were 500000, and the second 80. But for what exactly they "got" - you cannot find out! Everything is "but it is forbidden."

      I know for sure about my grandfather. Fell for being a prisoner. He worked in the penal battalion.
    2. BAI
      +1
      13 September 2018 11: 52
      The first were 500000, and the second 80. But for what exactly they "got" - you cannot find out! Everything is "but it is forbidden." Until 000!

      “Russia and the USSR in the wars of the 2001th century. The loss of armed forces. Statistical study. " Under the general editorship of the candidate of military sciences, professor of AVN, Colonel General G.F. Krivosheev. Publishing house "OLMA-PRESS" M 246. p. 131. Chapter V. The Great Patriotic War. Section: "Number and Decrease." There are two tables on the page. We look at table 994,3. The fourth line from the top: Convicted - 376,3 thousand people, (including desertion - 436,3 thousand people) Of the total number of convicts sent to places of detention - 422,7 thousand people. To the line is a footnote at the bottom of the page. Footnote text. “Of this number of 436,6 thousand convicts, the execution of sentences was delayed until the end of hostilities with fines sent to the front, 135 thousand were sent to places of detention, and 135 thousand were shot (taken into account as non-combat losses).” Thus, by the verdict of military courts during the years of World War II, XNUMX thousand Soviet troops were executed.

      1. As we see, we need access and they will provide everything.
      2. The numbers are completely different.
      1. 0
        13 September 2018 12: 11
        I took these figures from the 1995 edition of the year. There were no later ones. Good thing you found more accurate. Apparently, work is still going on, and that’s good. But ... personally, I can’t work with it. I have a tolerance. But living in Podolsk and working in the VO archive there is beyond the means of a pensioner. But ten divisions of the executed are still too many.
    3. 3vs
      -2
      13 September 2018 13: 01
      I’m talking about this, all this is still waiting for its researchers ...
  11. -2
    13 September 2018 08: 27
    Archival data in such matters is a very crafty affair.
    According to archival data, about 70 thousand people out of millions of prisoners died in Auschwitz.
    According to archival data, Auschwitz personnel should not be judged, but rewarded for caring for prisoners. am
    However, even according to Soviet archival data at the height of the war, mortality in the Gulag was quite comparable with German concentration camps


    GULAG (General Directorate of Camps). 1918-1960. Chapter III // Document No. 103. Information on the death rate of prisoners in the Gulag system for the period 1930-1956. / Compiled by A.I. Kokurin, N.V. Petrov. - MFD, 2000. - ISBN 5-85646-046-4.
    So far no one knows the truth, the archive is the archive, and reality is reality
    1. +3
      13 September 2018 17: 42
      Quote: Avior
      Certificate of mortality of prisoners in the Gulag system for the period 1930-1956.

      give specific numbers, not nonsense
      the total mortality of prisoners in the USSR in the years 37-53 was about 16%, and the main increase was during the Second World War due to a decrease in food standards (in 1939, in the camps, it was kept at 3,29% of the annual contingent, and in the colonies - 2,30 ,thirty%
      During the war, the situation of the Gulag prisoners worsened. Nutrition rates were significantly reduced, which immediately led to a sharp increase in mortality. If in 1940 46 prisoners died in the Gulag camps, then in 665 - 1942, i.e. 248 times more)
      about 18 million went through Nazi camps, about 11 died
      1. -4
        14 September 2018 10: 22
        I gave you specific numbers and gave a source. Read carefully
        1. 0
          16 September 2018 07: 04
          at least one quote from the source
  12. VLR
    +8
    13 September 2018 09: 18
    In the 90s we lived in the country of the "victorious Maidan", raging stupid people under drugs and vomiting also destroyed monuments, the liberals from the Fifth Column renamed streets and cities. Now sobering is gradually coming, but from below, not from above. None other than Putin opened the shameful Yeltsin Center in Ekb.
    As for Solzhenitsyn: he did not have access to archives and documents. He collected gossip, rumors, camp folklore. This is how this "Archipelago" folklore work had to be printed. Do you know how many prisoners were in the camps at the time of Stalin's death - in March 1953? 2 526 402. Political of them - 221 435 (8,76%). As you understand, many of them at that time were SS men from the Baltic states and Western Ukraine, Vlasovites and policemen. In addition, their ranks were constantly replenished with animal-like "green brothers" and natural-born sadistic Banderites. Not only was the denazification of the Baltic states and Western Ukraine not carried out, the "terrible tyrant" Stalin abolished the death penalty just then. What can be said here? I found the time! But, nothing could be done, and all these scum were automatically given the standard six years. Moreover, six years of exile, not even the camps. Unless, of course, there was one hundred percent evidence of their participation in war crimes and massacres of civilians. The executioners and punishers were sentenced to ten years. Even in the camps, they were awaited by a fully paid nine-hour working day, a work book, a full social package and, it is not clear with what fright, an amnesty for the tenth anniversary of Victory in 1955. More than 20 OUN members then returned to Western Ukraine. But in 000 there were not so few of them among the prisoners. A member of Gorbachev's Politburo, renegade and traitor Yakovlev, during the years of Perestroika, created a commission to rehabilitate victims of political repression. They dug like mad moles. Do you know what you found out? During the entire existence of Soviet power, from 1953 to 1919, 1990 3 786 people were convicted under political articles, of which 094 642 people were shot. Moreover, 980% of these arrests and executions fell on two years - 90 and 1937. At the time, the NKVD was headed by the pederast Nikolai Yezhov, suffering from an inferiority complex. The dwarf's head was spinning from the power that fell on him. In his safe, by the way, after his arrest, they found "Stalin's Case": Stalin was not joking when he said that the NKVD could even arrest him. Until 1938 Stalin was only the first among equals, decisions were made by voting, and Stalin was almost always in the minority (the minutes of the meetings were preserved). And the most bloody and fanatical was Kaganovich. To get rid of Yezhov, he had to call in Moscow a man who least of all wanted to work in the NKVD system and dreamed of a career as an engineer and builder. And his name was Lavrenty Beria. The number of arrests under him immediately decreased by 1939 times. Many cases have been dropped.
    Yakovlev was very disappointed with these figures and immediately classified them. And our foolish perestroika immediately began to compete: who is more? No sooner does some idiot write "20 million" than another will write "30" or "40". It's just amazing: how did they not reach one hundred million? Yakovlev decided to show everyone what a tyrant and sadist this Stalin was, and gave an unequivocal order: to rehabilitate everyone! But, despite all the efforts, only about 800 succeeded. Among them, by the way, were very odious people. Who could, for example, suspect Tukhachevsky, Yakir and Yegorov, who were arrested on the eve of their planned coup d'état, of excessive democratism? Do you think they were eager for power to close prisons and distribute flowers and candies to everyone?
    By the way, many high-ranking embezzlers and bribe-takers were convicted under political articles: the investigators did not believe that people who "had everything" were not stealing on instructions from enemy intelligence services.
    1. +1
      14 September 2018 11: 19
      Egorov had nothing to do with Tukhachevsky and Yakir. He was arrested at the end of the Black Sea Revolution, and then shot during the period when Beria became the people's commissar and mass repression began to decline. Either he was not lucky, or he himself actively participated in mass repressions.
  13. +2
    13 September 2018 09: 35
    Indeed, the article is really about nothing, those who say so in the comments are right. Some myths are continuous - then a very huge number of millions sat in unbearable conditions (as, as claimed in perestroika times), then everyone did not care about where, who and how they sat (in the 90s), then, when life - It became better, everyone was drawn to exposing the liberals. It turns out that by today's standards, if millions were sitting, they were not so huge, but small (millions), and sitting was not so bad (good conditions), and there were few political all criminals.
    Other times will come, and they will, these times, compose something new.
    1. 0
      13 September 2018 10: 28
      "After all, the article is really about nothing ... "
      Does this author have articles "about what"?
  14. VLR
    +8
    13 September 2018 09: 46
    By the way, do you know that we had a very serious attempt to rehabilitate Vlasov? In 2004, feeling that something was wrong, I wrote an article "The Man from the Bog", which was published by the magazine "History". Further: there is such a historian-Vlasovite K. Aleksandrov, he recently defended his doctoral dissertation (you may have heard - since it is not the 90s, in scientific circles and on the Internet this news has caused a certain resonance), then he was still a candidate. He dared to enter into a discussion with me, publishing in the same article "Traitor or a decent soldier?", Where he declared me a Stalinist and called me the creator of propaganda clichés. In my reply article "A traitor cannot be the savior of the Fatherland," I literally smeared him on the wall, and perhaps a little helped that none of us now live on Vlasov street, and our children do not lay flowers at his monument.
    1. +2
      13 September 2018 10: 17
      But they live on the streets of a German agent and put carnations at the monuments to him.
      And then you get some strange parallax, Vlasov is a traitor, but there are no Ulyanovs like that.
      Do not find?
      1. VLR
        +5
        13 September 2018 14: 08
        For Lenin, German money is a dark matter. But, you know, even if we assume that they were: if Putin takes money from the Americans with the same consequences for the Americans (as for the Germans), I will be in favor with both hands. Because Lenin returned the money to the Germans with interest, having organized a revolution in Germany, as a result of which Germany was defeated and did not have time to get almost nothing from Russia. The Treaty of Brest-Litovsk was annulled and Germany became the first country in the Western world to recognize the USSR and establish close cooperation with it in all areas. A very profitable USSR. This is the first thing. Secondly, have you not forgotten that Trotsky came to Russia in 1917 with an American passport issued personally by the President of the United States and pockets full of money? Thirdly, are you aware that the February Revolution in Russia, which began the disintegration and collapse of the country, was organized and paid for by Great Britain? And the Bolsheviks actually raised power out of the mud, and very reluctantly: everyone understood that Russia was the end, it was already impossible to save it, and did not understand why they had to take responsibility, play the role of gravediggers of a great empire? That others have already buried. We wanted to wait and see what happens next. The Bolsheviks took power only because Lenin, not giving a damn about party discipline, voluntarily showed up at Smolny at night and hung pretty people for everyone present there. Even Trotsky admitted this: if it had not been for Lenin, there would have been no October coup. And there would be no Russia. Lenin's only mistake was that he did not listen to Stalin and took not a simple Federation, but the Union of Republics as a model of the future state, laying a time bomb that exploded before our eyes.
        1. 0
          13 September 2018 21: 08
          She received everything from her faithful agent. And gold and food and territory.
          But Russia did not receive anything back.
          1. VLR
            +3
            14 September 2018 08: 20
            What kind of "dense" you are. Good advice: just write anonymously, no one will take it seriously, and will not suit you. My hands are just itching about pulling, so you substitute literally in every message, giving information from sources of the "Fire" level of the Perestroika time, you give such reasons for criticism and ridicule, but waste time on trolls - do not respect yourself.
        2. +1
          14 September 2018 13: 36
          Lenin did not organize a revolution in Germany, do not write nonsense, he did not have such an opportunity with all his desire. The fact that the Brest Peace was canceled - I must say thanks to the Entente, which defeated Germany.
          1. VLR
            +1
            14 September 2018 14: 07
            Lenin almost organized the revolution in the Entente countries. That is why the capitalists, gritting their teeth, began to share their income with the workers - in order to reduce the degree of social tension and avoid revolutions in their countries. It is Lenin, the very existence of the USSR, the Comintern and the fear they instilled in the "masters of life" that today's Europeans and Americans owe to the dramatic improvement in their lives in the 20th century. There would be no revolution in Russia - until now, children in Europe and the United States would work hard for a piece of bread.
            1. 0
              14 September 2018 14: 45
              "Almost" doesn't count. And he did not organize anything in the Entente countries - his hands were short. Even in Finland, Hungary and Bavaria, the role of the Russian Bolsheviks is minimal, and even there the "revolutions" lost, as in the Baltics.
              Well, Europeans and Americans were lucky, but not Russians, our standard of living after the revolution fell, and the standard of living of Europeans and Americans was unattainable for the working people of the USSR.
    2. 0
      13 September 2018 10: 48
      Quote: VlR
      There is such a historian-Vlasovite K. Aleksandrov, recently he defended his doctoral dissertation (you may have heard - since it is not the 90s now, in scientific circles and on the Internet this news caused a certain resonance), then he was still a candidate. He dared to enter into a discussion with me, publishing there an article "Traitor or a decent soldier?"

      Aleksandrov, by the way, raises and tries to answer a very important, albeit painful question: how did it happen that hundreds of thousands of Soviet citizens voluntarily entered the service of the enemy and fought against their homeland? Why did this happen? There is still no answer to this question, despite the fact that it is needed. Vitally needed.
      1. +4
        13 September 2018 11: 41
        Quote: Lieutenant Teterin
        There is still no answer to this question, despite the fact that it is needed. Vitally needed.

        The answer is very simple - nobody wanted to die.
        1. -3
          13 September 2018 12: 26
          Quote: bober1982
          The answer is very simple - no one wanted to die.

          This is certainly understandable. A person does not want to die at any time. But if it was a question of such a desire, then people would simply try to go somewhere far away from the front. And here, on the contrary, they were recorded in the ROA, RONA and other organizations, in which they actively fought.
          1. +4
            13 September 2018 13: 11
            But, these people had nowhere to go, they were on enemy territory, and they didn’t actively fight like that - they took part in the suppression of anti-fascist resistance in Europe, they fought with the Red Army (very unsuccessfully) only from the beginning of 1945, and these Vlasov units even the SS men were afraid - these were real scumbags, even by the SS standards.
            It is very simple to say that the Vlasovites fought against the Jewish International, Stalin, etc., as Andrei Andreevich liked to say, thus justifying elementary cowardice, animal fear, betrayal. It is curious that it was the liberal comrades who "saddled" this topic - by themselves it was necessary to somehow justify their current betrayal, it is very convenient - in their opinion, the Motherland can be sold if you fight against bloody tyranny (Stalin, ........, ..........)
    3. +7
      13 September 2018 11: 38
      Quote: VlR
      there is such a historian, Vlasov K. Aleksandrov, he recently defended his doctoral dissertation

      Last year, he was deprived of a doctorate in historical sciences, by order of the Ministry of Education and Science.
  15. BAI
    0
    13 September 2018 10: 13
    The purpose of the myth is to denigrate and discredit Soviet civilization in the eyes of humanity and the citizens of Russia themselves.

    It is a rare case when I, in principle, agree with this author, but how much can I repeat - there is no and cannot be a "Soviet civilization" according to Marx and Engels. Civilization is a class society. A classless society is the next formation. Therefore, there is the term "Western civilization" it is a class society, but there is no "Soviet civilization" - a classless society. Civilization and classlessness are mutually exclusive concepts.
  16. +3
    13 September 2018 11: 05
    Samsonov casually sidestepped the issue of dispossession.

    Until 1934, peasants sent to "kulak exile" were called special settlers,
    in 1934–1944 - labor settlers, since 1944 - special settlers.

    "Fists" have been divided into three categories:
    1 - a counterrevolutionary asset, their affairs were considered by special triplets consisting of representatives of PPOGPU, regional committees of the CPSU (b) and the prosecutor's office. Usually family members were evicted to remote areas with the confiscation of all property or shot;
    2 - the richest fists, the “pillar of the anti-Soviet asset”, were subject to eviction for special settlement, this category included elders, that is, sympathizing with the fists; 3– other fists, which, as a rule, moved within the region or edge.

    On the whole, the scale of the campaign to collect agricultural tax in the Urals as a whole is dispassionately dry: the total agricultural tax in the Urals (from sole farms and collective farms) amounted to 1932 million rubles in 503,6, of which from collective farms - only 121,5 million, and 382,1 million accounted for sole farms.
    Deductions of profits of all Ural enterprises of heavy industry (388,3 million rubles) for the same period. It is not surprising that the expected fulfillment of the agricultural tax for 1933. amounted to 763,3 million rubles. - a gigantic sum at the time.
    A special income scale was established (in 1931) with a pronounced progression:

    Dependence of interest rate on income level for kulak farms
    Amount of income, rub. Tax rate%
    500 rub - 20%
    500-700 rub - 30%
    700-1000 rub - 40%
    1000-3000 rub - 50%
    3000-6000 rub - 60%
    More than 6000 rub. - 70%

    As of 1927, there were 1240,3 thousand individual peasant farms in the Ural region.

    As you approach 1934 households became poorer: firstly, the most prosperous peasants were dispossessed earlier, due to the increase in the rate of dispossession, it became obvious for the peasants that the only option of salvation was “squandering” property or a fictitious section with the subsequent escape, which allowed not to fall into the category of fists.

    As of December 10, 1930, the total number of dispossessed households in the Urals was 25624, of which 2 (14179 people) in 68227 categories, 3 in 4200 categories, 18379 families in total, 7245 families were not evicted and dispossessed.
    According to the 1st category in the Ural region, 5000 families were planned for dispossession (Database "Dispossessed peasants of the South Ural Rakov AA).

    Yekaterinburg scientists A. Kapustini V. Motrevich were engaged in a description of the resettlement process in the Urals. According to them, in the Ural region there were 101,4 thousand exiled families, which amounted to approximately 480 thousand dispossessed.

    Inquiries No. 1 and 2 of the Special Department of the OGPU on the number of kulaks evicted and resettled within the Urals Region for 1930–1931. give the following numbers: in 1930. 16394 dispossessed families (76602 people) were evicted from the Ural region, in 1931 - 12000 families. - there is a discrepancy in the numbers of researchers and those noted in the OGPU certificates. Usually the plan was overfulfilled.

    The social composition of the dispossessed is interesting - for example, according to the service in the army dispossessed:
    dispossessed in the white army - 49,41%
    served in the tsarist army - 38,53%
    in the red army - 8,24%

    The number of cows in the farm dispossessed:
    0-2 pcs 51,04%
    3-4 pcs 34,53%
    5-6 pcs 9,35%

    number of horses in dispossessed farms:
    0-2 pcs 44,06%
    3-4 pcs 37,46%
    5-6 pcs 13.49%

    category of dispossessed
    I - 9.57%
    II - 61.91%
    III - 28.52%

    The researcher draws attention to the paradoxes of the Soviet regime: since 1930, all who had agricultural machinery were dispossessed: according to Uralselkhozbank, in 1926–1927. Most loans for agricultural machinery were issued to the middle peasants (61,75%) and the poor (28,9%).
    That is, a few years later the "rules of the game" were changed - these borrowers-peasants were classified as kulaks and dispossessed.
    https://docplayer.ru/29231897-Baza-dannyh-raskulachennye-krestyane-yuzhnogo-urala-gg-i-ee-analiz.html подробнее здесь.

    Of course the dispossessed property was socialized.
    In fact, the most working stratum of the peasantry ceased to exist, not even in terms of the physical destruction of part of the dispossessed, but the disappearance of the incentive and the ability to work on their land.
  17. BAI
    +1
    13 September 2018 11: 07
    As I understand it, the only official document on this topic is:

    Everything else is at the discretion of the accounter.
    1. +1
      13 September 2018 14: 29
      Quote: BAI
      Everything else is at the discretion of the accounter.

      Pavlov’s help is still there
      1. BAI
        +1
        13 September 2018 16: 28
        Pavlov is only 37 and 38 years old.
        1. -1
          14 September 2018 09: 21
          Quote: BAI
          Pavlov only 37 and 38 Years.


          Even in this the simplest, well-known to the student, the question, you showed your complete ignorance and were embarrassed: in Pavlov’s Help TOTAL 1921 TO 1938 g.

          What do you know at all (except for slogans and agitation)? request
          1. +1
            14 September 2018 09: 35
            Quote: Olgovich
            Even in this the simplest, well-known to the student, the question, you showed your complete ignorance and were embarrassed: in Pavlov’s Help TOTAL 1921 TO 1938 g.
            What do you know at all (except for slogans and agitation)? request

            In Pavlov’s Help, a TOTAL result from 1921 to November 1953, XNUMX
            You still need to learn how to use Google, otherwise they corrected and embarrassed themselves ... laughing laughing laughing
            1. -2
              14 September 2018 10: 38
              Quote: merlin
              In Pavlov’s Help, a TOTAL result from 1921 to 1953 is given.
              You still need to learn how to use Google, otherwise they corrected and embarrassed themselves ...

              WHAT is the matter with you, dear man? belay fool lol
              Wai spoke only about Pavlov's Help for 1937-38 yyy (supposedly there is data there only for these 2 years, see the comment of the IAI).
              Only HER we are discussing:



              Is there such a certificate for 37-38? There is. Is there only data for two years? No, there is a result from 21 to 37. Am I right? Correctly.

              About the next certificate for subsequent years (from 1939 to 1953). speech did not go ....

              But the total result from 1921 to 1953, as you falsely wrote, Pavlov generally does not.

              What do you see when looking at a book? request

              PS
              Quote: merlin

              You should still learn


              It’s worth teaching youЬRussian language
              1. +1
                14 September 2018 11: 17
                Quote: Olgovich
                Is there such a certificate for 37-38? There is. Is there only data for two years? No, there is a result from 21 to 37. Am I right? Correctly.

                No, they sat down again in a puddle laughing
                The total set of certificates for 1921-53gg.
                And here is a specific reference for 1937-1938:


                PS You should still learn and fantasize less.
                PPS Thanks for the comment, I’ll take into account somehow, on occasion ...
                1. +1
                  14 September 2018 11: 58
                  Quote: merlin
                  The total set of certificates for 1921-53gg.
                  And here is the specific reference for 1937-1938

                  1. A specific reference for 1937-38 (VAI spoke about it) with the result 1921-1938 I have indicated and (see your photo). Correctly indicated. Do you dispute correctness? I already said just about this - what is so hard that he’s dead? fool

                  2. Your false statement about the existence of a certificate with a GENERAL TOTAL does not correspond to reality: they did not overlook the book lol
                  What ,
                  Quote: merlin
                  sat down again in a puddle
                  ? lol
                  Quote: merlin
                  PS You should still learn and fantasize less

                  You nevertheless have your own advice, and also, yes
                  Quote: merlin
                  will learn

                  PS Once again, it didn’t reach me, I repeat: will teachЬXia lol
    2. +1
      13 September 2018 15: 28
      My supervisor, professor A. Medvedev, former rector of Kuibyshev University and the responsible party boss of Moldova, who went through the war and lost his hand after the war, already in Soviet times proved by documents that 10000 Moldovan families were dispossessed after joining the USSR . That is illegal, according to the laws of THAT TIME! If they had a lawyer, and if the law were law, and not lawlessness, they would have avoided punishment, would have saved their property and life, because everyone was evicted to the steppe in Kazakhstan! And how many were those for whom he did not find documents? And then only in Moldova ???
      1. -2
        14 September 2018 09: 52
        Quote: kalibr
        according to documents proved that 10000 Moldavian Families were dispossessed after joining the USSR illegally. That is illegal, according to the laws of THAT TIME!

        The plan was launched, it was carried out by all means, for they knew that otherwise they themselves might get into ...
        By the way, not only Moldovan families were referred, but also Ukrainian, Russian, Bulgarian, etc.
        By the way, in Russia, dispossession is already an event somewhere in the past, there are no witnesses or participants. In Bessarabia, this happened after the Second World War and the dispossessed are still alive. I have neighbors in the country, other neighbors - at home - from dispossessed and exiled. All, by the way, are NOT Moldovans
        One couple is especially interesting: their huge families were sent to the Kurgan region (from southern Bessarabia), then further to the North, where they met in exile and got married.
        On the coffin of life, they are grateful to the Russian village people who took them home in severe frost from the barn in the first winter and fed them, although no one ordered them to do this.

        And then they worked both at logging, and at rafting, at construction sites, and in such a way that they built up houses and acquired households (they didn’t have to be dispossessed again!).
        Then they didn’t want to let them go, but they left, but again they didn’t let them go home, it turned out only in the Donbass, in the mines, where he became an invalid (his leg was crushed).
        But all the same, they later learned, became energy engineers, earned good money, and he bought his father’s house from the missing bogeyman, which he got after dispossessing.
        They live with dignity and work today, although they are already well over 80. Kind, calm people. Their main holiday is Victory Day. Why did these hard workers once break their lives? request
  18. BAI
    -1
    13 September 2018 11: 16
    a myth created by the enemies of the Union in the West during the information war and supported by the anti-Soviet in Russia itself. The purpose of the myth is to denigrate and discredit Soviet civilization in the eyes of humanity and the citizens of Russia themselves.

    It is a rare case when I agree with this author, but how much can I repeat - there is no "Soviet civilization"! Civilization according to Marx and Engels is a class society. A classless society is the next stage in the development of society. Therefore, there is the term "Western civilization", but there is no "Soviet civilization". Civilization and a classless society (not to be confused with "barbarism" according to Marx and Engels) are mutually exclusive. (K Marx and F Engels - Book: "Collected Works, Volume 21" IX BARBARRY AND CIVILIZATION)
  19. +5
    13 September 2018 11: 19
    How the NKVD-shnaya worked - it is necessary to write more often:

    "Seryozha probably died, because, unable to bear the gross lies of the investigator, he threw an inkwell at Nikolaev (the investigator - approx. Ed.) And was shot dead right away." Much later, another friend of the Sigov family told them that he allegedly saw how the body of Sergei was taken out of the reception room of the NKVD investigator. The family, as usual, was informed that their relative received 10 years without the right to correspondence. The fact that Sergei Sigov died on December 14, 1937, Marianna Veniaminovna and her sister managed to find out only in 1996, when she, as a relative of the repressed, was allowed to read the materials of his case.
    Then the sisters wrote a piece of the indictment in their notebook. The document stated that Sigov Sergey Pavlovich “is a member of the counter-revolutionary Socialist-Revolutionary group of the terrorist-rebel organization”. The testimony was given by the manager of the Ural Geological Trust, the head of the department of the Sverdlovsk Mining Institute (now USMU) Boris Dedkovsky. “It seems that he named everyone he knew about 30 names,” said Marianna Kazbekova.


    https://www.znak.com/2016-10-28/kak_i_za_chto_rasstrelivali_uralcev_v_1937_godu_k_dnyu_pamyati_zhertv_repressiy
  20. +3
    13 September 2018 12: 13
    “POM. START 4 DEPARTMENTS OF THE GUGB OF THE NKVD OF THE USSR

    MAJOR STATE SECURITY

    REPORT “On the results of the investigation in the case of the liquidated church-sectarian-rebel organization in the Chelyabinsk region”

    The counter-revolutionary organization of the clergy and churchmen opened in the Chelyabinsk region was a c / r bloc of religious church and sectarian movements. The investigation established that this organization was created in 1934 by Ufa’s resident metropolitan Brekhov, igumen, former white officer Bormotov, bishop Vyatkin and priest Khlopotov, who were the so-called. "Rebel Spiritual Council," led by Brekhov and Bormotov.

    The council was also composed of representatives of sectarian movements: from the Evangelists - Khudonogov (regional commissioner of evangelical Christians) and from the Baptists - Rysev (regional leader of the Baptist communities). The Rebel Spiritual Council was closely linked and funded by Japanese intelligence, which was maintained through the representative of the Harbin branch of the white-emigrant organization Brotherhood of Russian Truth, Bishop Meletius, who lives in Harbin.

    The connection between Meletius and Brekhov was carried out by Archimandrite Romanov Luka, who repeatedly crossed the Soviet border illegally. In 1936, Romanov transferred to Brekhov 10 rubles, which he received from Meletius for the needs of the organization.

    Besides japanese intelligence(!) The “spiritual council” also received directives for conducting rebel, terrorist, and espionage and sabotage activities from the so-called "Union Church and Political Center", headed by a former prince, metropolitan of the autocephalous churches of Ukhtomsky, who are in the service of German and Japanese intelligence(!).

    During 1934 - 1937 The “Insurgent Spiritual Council” created from among the clergy, churchmen, sectarians, officers, White Guards, punishers and kulaks a widely ramified organization that covered almost all the cities and districts of the Chelyabinsk Region and the Bashkir Republic.

    In total, 1127 people were arrested in this case, including: religious ministers - 239, monks - 37, active churchmen - 212, kulaks - 415, sectarian preachers - 37, sectarians - 75 and former officers, gendarmes, police officers, active White Guards and punitive - 112 people ...

    In 1936, the diversion group created by Brekhov organized at st. Ufa the wreck of a freight train bound for the Far East with military cargo. In April 1937, in the Kunashak district, a sabotage group led by priest Kireev crashed a passenger train from Chelyabinsk to Sverdlovsk.

    In 1936, in the city of Kopeisk, a sabotage group led by the White Guards Shtemberg and Kondratiev, flooded the mines No. 1 and 203 and set fire to the compressor building at the mine No. 204 by means of a short circuit for electrical wires. Saboteurs Arshin, Balabanov and Sominin Brekhov were instructed to develop an explosion plan for the Zlatoust Metallurgical Plant.

    All the defendants in the present case were sentenced by the “troika” of the UNKVD in the Chelyabinsk region: 714 people to VMN, 10 people for 269 years. and for eight years - 117 people. The investigation established a significant organized betrayal of agents working on the clergy and sectarians. We have arrested 22 agents ...
    "START. 4 DEPARTMENTS OF UGB UKVD CH ST. LIEUTENANT STATE. SECURITY OF VORONCHIKHIN
    START 6 DTD. 4 DEPARTMENTS OF THE UNKVD ML. LIEUTENANT STATE. SAFETY SAFETY


    That is, the state security lieutenant in the report didn’t especially bother with inventing non-existent terrorist organizations and attracted all known intelligence, without bothering to collect evidence, knocking out confessions from the detainees.
    And at the same time, he wrote off two train wrecks, a fire and a mine flooding on terrorists ...

    Human life did not cost anything - execution in the basement of the NKVD and in a mine outside the city ...
  21. +4
    13 September 2018 12: 18
    Memoirs of the participant of the excavations (burials of the repressed in the mines - Zolotaya Gora, Chelyabinsk), archaeologist, candidate of historical sciences Andrei Rybalko:

    ... The caliber of bullets was found different, but mainly from the Nagan. They say that few were found for so many dead, but in fact no one specifically searched for cartridges. There were plenty of corpses with bullet holes in the back of the head. Until now, a young girl is standing in front of her eyes, we thought at first that this was a child, but the medical examiner determined that she was a teenager of about 17. The braid was perfectly preserved, she had a bullet hole in the back of her head, I found a bullet in my mouth ...


    ... KGB officers came to us and said: “Or maybe it was Kolchak who shot people?”
    But after all, the money in the pockets of the victims was a trifle Soviet money from 1934-1936. Each batch of shot people was sprinkled with slag, that is, you rake 30-40 centimeters and find bones and clothes. The clothes were mostly winter ones, and those receipts for the withdrawal of money were dated January 1937 ... "


    In 1992, the mass grave of the victims of Stalinist repressions was registered as a historical monument by the Committee for the Protection of History and Cultural Heritage of the Administration of the Chelyabinsk Region. A large stone was placed next to the obelisk with the inscription: "A memorial to the victims of Stalin's repressions will be erected here." And even though more than 20 years have passed, the memorial has not yet been erected. Every year in September, rallies commemorating the victims of Stalinist repressions are held at the memorial. In the area of ​​the Golden Mountain on an area of ​​about 15 hectares, only 11 mines with the remains of those shot were found.
    https://antisovetsky.livejournal.com/14683.html
    1. +1
      13 September 2018 13: 03
      They were all robbers and rapists, and the girl with the oblique great-granddaughter of Sonya’s golden pen!
  22. +1
    13 September 2018 14: 29
    We will never know the figures about the number of criminals killed in the camps, killed by knives, overworking, shot and buried in unmarked burial grounds. Will the department, which killed, sometimes even without investigation, but by the decision of "triplets", reveal the truth? It is possible to dispute the figures given in the "Archipelago", but the facts of the existence of convicts described in other sources (Shalamov and others) cannot be blurred. The patriot of his people is not the one who whitewashes the crimes of the regime against his people, but the one who remembers and honors the long-suffering history of his country.
  23. 0
    13 September 2018 15: 29
    marline,
    Quote: merlin

    Yes it is yours, yours - no one argues.
    Although, I must note that this proposal of yours smacks of some kind of nationalism. Let’s say, for the Buryats from Buryatia in 1914. Nicholas was not an emperor?

    Considering the oath taken by all subjects, he was the Emperor for the Buryats, and for the Tartars, and for the Yakut. But your craving for a mocking distortion of the name and title of the ruler of your homeland leads to bad thoughts ....
    Quote: merlin

    Come on? What is your evidence?
    Ah, here they are ... an article in which there is not even an author? Is this your only source of information?

    Not the only https://topwar.ru/9204-kak-nachalas-pervaya-mirovaya-voyna.html
    http://voynablog.ru/2014/05/23/mobilizaciya-pred-pervoj-mirovoj/

    Quote: merlin
    Why would you? In Austria-Hungary, and not in Austria, units were mobilized for the war with Serbia. And yes, you don’t know the story, because On the 29th, no one announced partial mobilization in the Republic of Ingushetia.

    Didn't announce? Really? And then where did this document come from?
    http://nik191-1.ucoz.ru/blog/pervaja_mirovaja_vojna_29_16_ijulja_1914_goda_chastichnaja_mobilizacija_v_rossii/2014-07-29-553

    Quote: merlin

    The Serbs were promised a partial mobilization of the 24th, and they announced a general mobilization of 31. Of course they didn’t delay it - it worked very quickly ...

    Do you have confirmation that the Serbs promised this on the 24th?

    Quote: merlin
    And in the 38th France threw Czechoslovakia, how did this end for France? But, for example, in 1799 we harnessed for the Austrians, and what did this lead to?
    In general, it’s good that you don’t deny the fact that you are "harnessed".

    For France, this ended with a shameful surrender in 1940. And yes, I do not deny the fact of assistance to Serbia, because this is the essence of international politics - allies need help, otherwise a state that betrays its allies will become a pariah in international relations.
    1. +1
      13 September 2018 17: 33
      Quote: Lieutenant Teterin
      Considering the oath taken by all subjects, he was the Emperor for the Buryats, and for the Tartars, and for the Yakut.

      Well, then you do not need to make accents.
      Quote: Lieutenant Teterin
      But your craving for a mocking distortion of the name and title of the ruler of your homeland leads to bad thoughts ....

      There was once ... And the most terrible of the rulers ... And I, as a descendant, can quite assess the deeds, and since I value this "personality" low, then Nikolashka is the most appropriate name.
      Quote: Lieutenant Teterin
      Not the only one

      So the way that there
      Quote: Lieutenant Teterin
      https://topwar.ru/9204-kak-nachalas-pervaya-mirovaya-voyna.html

      A. Samsonov. I am familiar with the publications of this gentleman. Not impressive.
      Quote: Lieutenant Teterin
      http://voynablog.ru/2014/05/23/mobilizaciya-pred-pervoj-mirovoj/

      Someone M.V. Oskin. And it seems that the author is "debunking" another myth ...
      Quote: Lieutenant Teterin
      Didn't announce? Really? And then where did this document come from?
      http://nik191-1.ucoz.ru/blog/pervaja_mirovaja_vojna_29_16_ijulja_1914_goda_chastichnaja_mobilizacija_v_rossii/2014-07-29-553

      The document is real. There was such a document. And there was no announcement of a partial mobilization ... Here is such a parsley. Read Alexander Tarsaidze "Four Myths in the First World War" - who about this would definitely not lie. Well, about the rest too.
      Quote: Lieutenant Teterin
      And yes, I do not deny the fact of assistance to Serbia, because this is the essence of international politics - allies need help, otherwise a state that betrays its allies will become a pariah in international relations.

      "The state cannot have permanent allies, only permanent interests."
      The whole interest of RI consisted in the influence on the Balkans and the desire to possess the straits - so they got into the meat grinder and no other explanations, such as "Wilhelm's fierce desire to conquer Mother Russia", should not be invented.
      1. -2
        13 September 2018 18: 08
        Quote: merlin
        so they got into the meat grinder and no other explanations, like "Wilhelm's fierce desire to conquer Mother Rus", need not be invented.

        So why did Germany declare war on Russia and attack it? And then Grandpa Purtales with fear rolled out both notes with the declaration of war, one according to the results of the mobilization was an occasion, and the second without reason at all.
        The year 1914 is the same 1941, there is nothing to argue about.
        Another thing is that the country's leadership was wiser, and therefore the Germans were not allowed to go further than the Dvina.
        1. +3
          13 September 2018 18: 23
          Is this Nikolashka wise?
          Read the story, and you will discover the reason why Germany declared war on the Republic of Ingushetia.
          PS Luxembourg won without any declaration of war on nuts.
          1. -3
            13 September 2018 18: 38
            With pockmarked Sososhka, when compared, who did not know how to speak Russian, in general a genius.
            Germany attacked Russia. It is a fact. Moreover, even the first shots were from her side. And the rest is defective stories of passengers of a sealed car.
            1. +1
              13 September 2018 18: 40
              Yes, indeed, one must be an alternative gifted genius in order to make a fake as epic as Nikolashka.
              1. -3
                13 September 2018 18: 43
                Well, the loss of the RIA 1 million dead, and the Red Army 20 million.
                With the same opponent and in the same composition.
                1. +1
                  13 September 2018 18: 55
                  The Red Army has 10 million - do not retell stupid stories. In addition, the enemy of stupid Nicky was forced to fight on two fronts, and he still snails! Such a king-rag.
                  PS 2,5 million killed and 4 million prisoners of loss RIA
                  1. 0
                    14 September 2018 13: 42
                    Quote: merlin
                    In addition, the enemy was forced to fight on two fronts


                    This confirms the wisdom of the Russian leadership, the next war, with the pockmarked Sososhka, was met with an unmobilized army and without allies, with a logical result.

                    Quote: merlin
                    2,5 million killed and 4 million captured RIA losses


                    1,9 dead and killed for all reasons, and 2,5 million prisoners. These are the maximum numbers.
                    1. 0
                      14 September 2018 20: 51
                      1,9 dead and killed for all reasons with peaceful settlement
    2. +2
      13 September 2018 17: 49
      Quote: Lieutenant Teterin
      But your craving for a mocking distortion of the name and title of the ruler of your homeland leads to bad thoughts ....

      you to EBNu and labeled the same with reverence? !!!
  24. BAI
    +3
    13 September 2018 17: 23
    Opera,
    But Stalin did well, that he sat quietly and sat down, and then the Germans and I butted around Moscow ?!

    Under Nicholas, the Russian Empire ceased to exist as a result of the war, and under Stalin, as a result of a much more difficult war, the USSR emerged from the war as the greatest power in the world.
    1. -3
      13 September 2018 17: 29
      Quote: BAI
      Under Nicholas, the Russian Empire ceased to exist as a result of the war

      This is science fiction, not scientific.
      Quote: BAI
      The USSR emerged from the war as the greatest power in the world.

      Not the USA, no?
      1. The comment was deleted.
      2. +2
        13 September 2018 17: 46
        Quote: Koshnitsa
        This is science fiction, not scientific.

        I correctly understood that you are a fellow from a parallel world where RI continued to exist after February 17 ?! laughing
        1. -1
          13 September 2018 17: 52
          In fact, until September 1917, the country was officially called the Russian Empire, and then the Constituent Assembly was to decide.
          Popadanites are those who accuse the Tsar of signing the Brest Peace Treaty.
          1. +2
            13 September 2018 20: 36
            Quote: Koshnitsa
            In fact, until September 1917, the country was officially called the Russian Empire

            you don't change your shoes on the fly
            You stated that the fact that RI ended in science fiction on Nikolashka, and now you are saying goodbye
            Quote: Koshnitsa
            Popadanites are those who accuse the Tsar of signing the Brest Peace Treaty.

            indirectly to blame, because if he weren’t a rag, it’s unlikely that something happened
  25. +2
    13 September 2018 19: 03
    Quote: Serge Gorely
    According to the "research" of Svinidze, other Latin and Novodvorsk people, the peak of repression was in the years 37-38, and 52, and the statistics of arrests do not confirm this. What's the matter? It was just that these years were the period of the cleansing of the Leninist guards and the "creative intelligentsia", of which they tried to make "saints" in the 60s and 80s,

    Yes, everything is simple - in 1937 the ranks were cleaned, exactly the same as Erdogan spent in Turkey after an attempted coup.
    The whole problem is that the majority of those repressed in 1937 were Jews - hence the whole howl. That is, in fact, in 1937 they suppressed a possible coup.
    We in Minsk, in 1905 at the time of the failed revolution, there was a dispersal of the demonstration with shooting. The number of victims of the shooting - about 100 people from Belarus - only two - the rest of the dead Jews.
  26. -2
    13 September 2018 19: 22
    Quote: merlin
    The Red Army has 10 million - do not retell stupid stories

    About 35 million called 15 returned, awarded a medal, so we think. + Partisans and militias.
    Quote: merlin
    PS 2,5 million killed and 4 million prisoners of loss RIA

    Source? That's it ....
    1. +2
      13 September 2018 19: 38
      Quote: Koshnitsa

      About 35 million called 15 returned, awarded a medal, so we think. + Partisans and militias.

      Stop telling stories
      Quote: Koshnitsa

      Source? That's it ....

      General Gurko during an allied conference in 1917
      1. -1
        13 September 2018 19: 41
        No source? So ...
  27. -2
    13 September 2018 19: 48
    Quote: merlin
    Stop telling stories

    Stop mocking the memory of the fallen. People died for their homeland, by the way, and the authorities didn’t even want to bury and count them. 20 million did not return from the war, most of those who left.
    Quote: merlin
    General Gurko during an allied conference in 1917

    The work of the Allied Conference was held in three commissions of political, military and technical. General Gurko reported that Russia lost two million dead and wounded, about the same number of prisoners
    Congratulations to you, citizen, a lie.
    1. +2
      13 September 2018 19: 53
      This is already quite a mockery of the memory of the heroes of the Second World War.
      Quote: Koshnitsa

      Congratulations to you, citizen, a lie.

      Turn on the brain already - the war did not end in January.
      1. -1
        13 September 2018 20: 04
        Mock while you.
        And why lie, about the words of Gurko?
        Quote: merlin
        the war did not end in January.

        The campaign of 1917 - the last of our old army - led to the loss of Livonia, Galicia and Bukovina. In June and September, we lost 200 killed and wounded, 000 prisoners and 80 guns. At the same time, our terminally ill army wrecked the enemy 000 dead and wounded, 732 prisoners, 140000 guns, 46000 mortars and 155 machine guns.
        1. +2
          13 September 2018 20: 26
          Double loss of the Red Army - this is a true mockery of the memory of heroes.
          As for losses in the FDA, I named General Gurko as the source, who cited the data for the beginning of 1917. In general, you underestimated the losses by half. We lost 1 million only in the Brusilovsky breakthrough.
          PS and you don’t poke me ... The nose is not mature, go learn better, shkolota
          1. 0
            13 September 2018 20: 54
            Yes, and even the state of conscience preferred to build monuments, but he was reluctant to calculate the losses and soldiers to bury.
            In the breakthrough of the Southwestern Front in 1916, the Russians lost 101 thousand people dead and missing. I can’t underestimate or overestimate these sources. For the RIA, the WWII means less than a million people who died from wounds, were held captive, from illnesses.
            About Gurko, lying is not good, ay-yay-yay. It turns out he did not say your numbers. Not good.
            I do not have to tell brethouses to the Internet ham.
            1. +2
              14 September 2018 08: 48
              Quote: Koshnitsa
              Yes, and even the state of conscience preferred to build monuments, but he was reluctant to calculate the losses and soldiers to bury.

              The Soviet state counted, tea is not the third Reich.
              Quote: Koshnitsa
              In the breakthrough of the Southwestern Front in 1916, the Russians lost 101 thousand people killed and missing.

              General de Castelno, in a report to the French Ministry of War on February 25, 1917, cites a figure of 980 thousand according to the headquarters of the Supreme Commander.
              Quote: Koshnitsa
              I can’t underestimate or overestimate the data from the sources. PMV for RIA is less than a million killed, who died from wounds, in captivity, from diseases.

              Studying at school ... You still have to pass the exam.
              Quote: Koshnitsa
              About Gurko, lying is not good, ay-yay-yay. It turns out he did not say your numbers. Not good.

              He himself brought his words. He didn’t say your numbers.
              Quote: Koshnitsa
              I do not have to tell brethouses to the Internet ham.

              Russian language, too, would not hurt to pull up, shkololo.
              1. +1
                14 September 2018 13: 48
                Quote: merlin
                General de Castelno, in a report to the French Ministry of War on February 25, 1917, cites a figure of 980 thousand according to the headquarters of the Supreme Commander.


                These are common losses, not dead.
                According to the latest data, the losses of the Russian army (all fronts except the Caucasus) from May to December 1916 263 thousand killed, 215 thousand missing, 1 thousand wounded and shell-shocked, only 563 million 2 thousand.
    2. BAI
      +2
      13 September 2018 20: 22
      20 million from the war did not return,

      20 million - total losses. 8.656.369 people drafted into the army did not return from the war. The war itself came to the rest.
      1. -3
        13 September 2018 20: 46
        20 million is the loss of the killed and missing Red Army, in the figure of the falsifier Krivosheev in 8.656.369 people have already been recognized as obsolete by his organization, they have already voiced more by 2 million.
        1. +1
          14 September 2018 08: 49
          Quote: Koshnitsa
          20 million is the loss of the killed and missing Red Army, in the figure of the falsifier Krivosheev in 8.656.369 people have already been recognized as obsolete by his organization, they have already voiced more by 2 million.

          Scatter to school to study, loser!
  28. -4
    13 September 2018 20: 33
    If Stalin executed only a million people, then this is nonsense. For the sake of building communism, it was worth it.
    Only after all, the very idea of ​​building this ideal society is nothing more than bullshit.
    I wonder if there are people now who believe in this?
  29. -2
    13 September 2018 20: 44
    really millenne there milienne here. the main thing is that we are building communism ........
    my grandfather himself sat under investigation for almost a year as a Polish spy in 1938, under Beria he was released for lack of corpus delicti.
    lucky for him and our whole family.
    but it might not be lucky by the way
    therefore, the father in the birth certificate nationality Pole and wrote that they would not have thought that they were hiding
  30. -2
    13 September 2018 21: 00
    Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir
    You stated that the fact that RI ended in science fiction on nicholas

    It was called the Russian Empire for another six months. And the capitulation was signed not by the Tsar, but by Adolf Ioffe, a Bolshevik.
    Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir
    because it wasn’t a rag

    You already decide there, he is a rag or bloody? And then you get some kind of shurum-burum.
    1. +1
      15 September 2018 13: 45
      Quote: Koshnitsa
      It was called the Russian Empire for another six months. And the capitulation was signed not by the Tsar, but by Adolf Ioffe, a Bolshevik.

      generally the Russian Republic de facto from March 3 de jure from September 1
      Quote: Koshnitsa
      You already decide there, he is a rag or bloody? And then you get some kind of shurum-burum.

      learn to read you for a start
      1. -1
        16 September 2018 13: 41
        Until September, the empire in general, but it happens to some.
        Cooks before lunch, and after no. laughing
  31. +1
    13 September 2018 21: 23
    Quote: Koshnitsa
    .And the capitulation was not signed by the Tsar, but by Adolf Ioffe, a Bolshevik.

    Yeah, a purely Russian representative of the titular nation was ruining RI. )))
  32. 0
    14 September 2018 06: 34
    Although the article is stamped (more or less thinking people know this) .. but still a plus)))
  33. 0
    14 September 2018 09: 02
    The beginning of the false history of the Gulag, like the whole of the USSR, was laid, oddly enough, by the Kremlin. Instead of making the data publicly available (which is possible), the authorities took as a basis the tactics of total silence and concealment. As a result, all this fiddling crap resulted in a wide stream and was mistaken for an axiom with the full connivance of the Central Committee, the Council of Ministers, and personally dear leaders.
    And if, for example, Solzhenitsyn’s book were officially released and there was a reference book with data for that period, then any person himself could compare the sources. And he himself sent a false leader to all the funny letters. This simple idea somehow did not reach the top of the USSR. And in recent super-democratic times, any abuse in the direction of the USSR is accepted with a bang.
    It will only get worse. And the Red Star will disappear and the Red Banner will be hidden and everything Soviet will be recognized as intolerant, forbidden and will be punished even for mentioning the great country. And what is most fun - people will accept it in silence. For so already used to it. True, fun? ..
  34. +4
    14 September 2018 11: 27
    It's amazing how people like to dress in white clothes!
    As soon as some nasty thing happens, or they just don't like something, they immediately take a pose, and they begin to stigmatize, showing with all their appearance: "we are not like that." Don't flatter yourself guys, you are the same, even worse.
    But the thing is that our behavior is built around stimuli and reactions to them, and it’s enough to make a slight mistake with the stimulus so that we can spit blood for a long time.
    Take, for example, the so popular "Stalinist repressions". Please tell me, people who happily rushed to churn out phony sentences in order to move up the career ladder, did they self-originate on the orders of "bloody Stalin"? And how do they differ from the current investigators who fabricate or destroy criminal cases for bribes? Or from officials, from whom it is impossible to achieve anything but a formal reply that everything is fine? And from the citizens of the times of the Great French Revolution, who wrote denunciations of neighbors for a reward? And from the Ukrainian idiots who took out all the grain from the peasants cleaned up in order to report beautifully about the overfulfillment?
    Bastards, they are always present in society in commodity quantities, the nineties it is very clearly shown.
    And do not hope that today's "Russians" are somehow better than their ancestors, over the past thirty years they have brilliantly freed themselves "from the chimera called conscience", and if for a career they need to declare you terrorist-extremist-communists (it is unnecessary to cross out the missing write) or, a little later, members of the anti-American underground, they will do it with all their pleasure!
    1. -2
      14 September 2018 11: 50
      Do you know that there is such a concept of lesser evil? People probably have never been angels in the history of mankind, but it was extremely rare to get to such a state of bitterness as in Stalin's times, and maybe it never happened.
      1. 0
        18 October 2018 15: 25
        Quote: Nikolai P
        but to such a state of bitterness as in Stalin’s times it was extremely rare, and maybe it’s never been like that.

        Of course, you also believe in brownies.
  35. +2
    14 September 2018 13: 52
    Olgovich,
    Quote: Olgovich
    What is wrong with the fact that they (although I do not justify them in any way) found the courage and acquitted the innocent, at least a little straightened the crippled lives of millions of people?

    acting by the same methods that Beria was accused of ?!
    Quote: Olgovich
    The absolute power of the leader (and it was unlimited by anyone and nothing) certainly implies a similar responsibility.
    The repressions, which lasted until 1953 almost continuously, after this year, stopped (Rhodes does not count). Such a pattern ....

    can you give numbers?
    Quote: Olgovich
    Nothing. What should be?

    still congenital
  36. +2
    14 September 2018 14: 07
    "454 thousand of them were convicted of political crimes (34,5%). And not 9 million, as Conquest argued."
    funny "logic" of the author ... for him almost 0,5 million is a trifle ... a sack ... request
    Under Nicholas the "bloody" there were no such figures even close, not even 10 times less, but we were taught at school that tsarism was an anti-people regime ... Then what kind of regime was the Soviet power? Super anti-people?
    "9,1% - in 1938" and that this year there was a war? Why is there such a mortality rate - almost every 10th? OR did the regime fought with its own people and the number of the dead in the camps is comparable to the Nazi camps?
    "The goal of the myth is to denigrate and discredit Soviet civilization in the eyes of mankind and the citizens of Russia themselves."
    This is not a myth, but the harsh truth of history ... and the author himself confirmed that there is nothing to "denigrate" - Stalin's regime was Russophobic and anti-popular ...
  37. 0
    14 September 2018 14: 18
    Quote: BAI
    By the way, we see that 16000 people were sitting for espionage.

    but this is nonsense ... where can there be so many of them ...
    while political 1/3, if we add 17% of "socially harmful" (the very corpus delicti is curious bully ) then half ... request
  38. +2
    14 September 2018 16: 14
    According to a certificate prepared in February 1954 by Prosecutor General R. Rudenko, Minister of Internal Affairs S. Kruglov and Minister of Justice K. Gorshenin, for the period from 1921 to February 1, 1954 he was convicted of counterrevolutionary crimes by the OGPU collegium, “triples "The NKVD, by the Special Meeting, the Military College, the courts and military tribunals of 3 people, including 777 people were sentenced to death. This is for thirty-one years. This is the end of the Civil War, this is the era after it. This is four years of a terrible war with Hitler. This is the period after the Second World War. This is a fight against gangs of Bandera and forest brothers. This includes Berry and Yezhov, and other bloody executioners. Here are the traitors of Vlasov. Here are deserters and looters. Self-shooters. Alarmists. Participants in the gangster underground. Nazi accomplices who shed blood. This is the "Leninist Guard", which destroyed a great country to the joy of the enemies of Russia. Here Zinoviev and Kamenev. Trotskyists in this number. Figures of the Comintern. Traitor and traitor Tukhachevsky, who was about to arrange a military coup. The executioner Bela Kun, thousands of drowning officers in the Crimea with stones on their necks. A multifaceted figure, polysyllabic. If you divide the total number of executed by the number of years, you will get less than 380 people a year. A lot of? Of course. But let’s not forget what years it was. And there are no tens of millions executed. This is exactly a deliberate lie. Remember this figure: 642 people. That was. It is necessary to know and remember
    1. +1
      15 September 2018 09: 56
      What years? What do you tell tales? Believers for what they killed and planted, churches and monasteries all destroyed?
      No way. Just a grudge.
  39. +2
    14 September 2018 21: 21
    The last chairman of the KGB of the USSR, Kryuchkov, once said nothing like that, but no one believed him then.
  40. 0
    21 September 2018 23: 20
    I do not agree with everything, but obviously my knowledge is less than the knowledge of the author. and even more so - thanks for the article. After all, the opponents of the author, the demshiza and other liberal tusovka always operate precisely with abstract “millions of victims of the Stalinist regime” without any substantiation by facts or references to documents, which, to put it mildly, is somewhat annoying. a pity - the author also did not give any specific references to the materials used except for the abstract "figures from the archives" and "information ... from the KGB", but at least his figures are more similar to reality than Solzhenitsev's tens of millions - in whose name not only I hear the word FALSE.
  41. 0
    28 November 2018 15: 48
    Quote: BAI
    I can’t say about 52 years, but the peak is 37-38. Moreover, both in terms of the number of those arrested and the percentage of those shot. In 1936, 0,4% of those arrested were shot, and in 1938, 59,3%.


    This is just the time of "Yezhovism" and Nikita the Bloody, the bald maize, the ideological Trotskyist ...
  42. 0
    7 December 2018 08: 21
    All the same, some will sacredly believe that their relatives have not been jailed for anything. others sacredly believe that there were enemies. No mother admits that her son is a criminal. Even if you lay out all the facts in front of her. They say that the system is to blame, hunger. . So the people are arranged. And now go into the zone everyone will say that they’re sitting for nothing.